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Welcome to the home for USports Cross Country and Track & Field.
Your resource for results, rankings, videos, photos and articles.
In partnership with Athletics Canada.

News Articles >>

2017 U Sports Cross Country Live Stream / Results

Posted 1 week ago

2017 RESULTS

Important Links

LIVE STREAM | LIVE RESULTS | ENTRIES | INFO | FANTASY TEAM CONTEST

Previous Results

2016 | 2015 | 2014 | 2013 | 2012 | 2011 | 2010 | Older | 2017 Season

Schedule (Pacific Time Zone)

1pm Women's Race
2pm Men's Race

U Sports Team Rankings (going into championship)

Men's Rankings

  1. University of Guelph University of Guelph - 94pts
  2. Universit  Laval Universit Laval - 93pts
  3. McMaster University McMaster University - 79pts
  4. University of Calgary University of Calgary - 58pts
  5. Trinity Western University Trinity Western University - 57pts
  6. Queen's University Queen's University - 53pts
  7. Western University Western University - 36pts
  8. University of Victoria University of Victoria - 36pts
  9. University of Windsor University of Windsor - 22pts
  10. Dalhousie University Dalhousie University - 12pts
  11. University of Toronto University of Toronto - 5pts
  12. University of Regina University of Regina - 4pts
  13. McGill University McGill University - 3pts
  14. University of Alberta University of Alberta - 2pts
  15. University of Manitoba University of Manitoba - 1pts
  16. St. Francis Xavier University St. Francis Xavier University - 1pts

Women's Rankings

  1. Queen's University Queen's University - 97pts
  2. University of Toronto University of Toronto - 84pts
  3. University of Guelph University of Guelph - 78pts
  4. Universit  Laval Universit Laval - 60pts
  5. Trinity Western University Trinity Western University - 59pts
  6. McMaster University McMaster University - 40pts
  7. University of Victoria University of Victoria - 34pts
  8. University of Calgary University of Calgary - 32pts
  9. McGill University McGill University - 29pts
  10. Western University Western University - 16pts
  11. Laurentian University Laurentian University - 13pts
  12. University of Alberta University of Alberta - 10pts
  13. University of Waterloo University of Waterloo - 1pts
  14. University of Saskatchewan University of Saskatchewan - 1pts
  15. Acadia University Acadia University - 1pts
  16. University of Manitoba University of Manitoba - 1pts
  17. Dalhousie University Dalhousie University - 1pts

User Comments

  • lsm User since:
    Nov 21st, 2013
    Posts: 195
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #1 

    LSM said 1 week ago

    UVic beats TWU at BC Champs, yet remains a good 25 points behind them? Ha

    Quote comment
  • skittles-inc User since:
    Nov 9th, 2017
    Posts: 1
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #2 

    Skittles INC. said 1 week ago

    Quoting: LSM
    "UVic beats TWU at BC Champs, yet remains a good 25 points behind them? Ha"


    https://imgur.com/SLs0SYR

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
    thumbs_up 8
    Report    REPLY #3 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Go Queen's

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #4 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    ....so it looks like there's a $10 charge to watch the Live Stream.

    Quote comment
  • wings-leafs User since:
    Oct 29th, 2014
    Posts: 79
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #5 

    Wings>Leafs said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "....so it looks like there's a $10 charge to watch the Live Stream."


    Unbelievable. Wow.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #6 

    really? said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Wings>Leafs
    "Unbelievable. Wow."


    I don't think it has anything to do with Trackie or the host University. I think the new U Sports Live Stream portal simply doesn't have free streaming (for any sport not just cross country). Do you really have that big of an issue to pay $10 to watch the stream? Hopefully this means it will be of BETTER quality.

    Quote comment
  • wings-leafs User since:
    Oct 29th, 2014
    Posts: 79
    thumbs_up 22
    Report    REPLY #7 

    Wings>Leafs said 1 week ago

    Quoting: really?
    "I don't think it has anything to do with Trackie or the host University. I think the new U Sports Live Stream portal simply doesn't have free streaming (for any sport not just cross country). Do you really have that big of an issue to pay $10 to watch the stream? Hopefully this means it will be of BETTER quality."


    I wasn't blaming Trackie or the host lol. $10 can buy like three pairs of socks. Big loss.

    Quote comment
  • milesdavisandthecool User since:
    Jan 21st, 2014
    Posts: 86
    thumbs_up 6
    Report    REPLY #8 

    MilesDavisAndTheCool said 1 week ago

    Quoting: really?
    "I don't think it has anything to do with Trackie or the host University. I think the new U Sports Live Stream portal simply doesn't have free streaming (for any sport not just cross country). Do you really have that big of an issue to pay $10 to watch the stream? Hopefully this means it will be of BETTER quality."


    100% agree that some money being charged should mean better quality, but I'm not convinced though, so while I may fork out the money this time, if it's no good, this may be the last time.

    There is an argument to be made that while the internet has democratized the creation and consumption of media, it's also reduced the overall quality...and unfortunately it has also lead to some of those (untrained/inexperienced) creators thinking that they can charge the same amount as people who put out a quality project....never has that been more clear then when watching coverage of running.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
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    ImDown4Ten said 1 week ago

    watching the ladies from Queens decimate, demolish, destroy, devastate and ravage the field is worth at least the cost of a single Leafs or Raptors ticket!!!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
    thumbs_up 27
    Report    REPLY #10 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Bigger question: Sheffar or Black to win the men’s 9.8km event??? Who you got?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #11 

    Danny Wintermute said 1 week ago

    Look for the MacEwan Women to be a force in this years race. Hannah Leggatt is an absolute workhorse!!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #12 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: MilesDavisAndTheCool
    "100% agree that some money being charged should mean better quality, but I'm not convinced though, so while I may fork out the money this time, if it's no good, this may be the last time.

    There is an argument to be made that while the internet has democratized the creation and consumption of media, it's also reduced the overall quality...and unfortunately it has also lead to some of those (untrained/inexperienced) creators thinking that they can charge the same amount as people who put out a quality project....never has that been more clear then when watching coverage of running."


    Totally agree with you. If it's free and bad no loss. I could care less. If money is charged the quality standards have to go way up. I may give it a try still.

    Quote comment
  • nc-blogger User since:
    Sep 12th, 2014
    Posts: 610
    thumbs_up 26
    Report    REPLY #13 

    NC Blogger said 1 week ago

    Anyone else out there frustrated with the live results - why are the taking so long??

    .....and then you realize, oh yeah, the race is on Sunday! Thank goodness I didn't pay for the 24 hour live stream package, that would have been embarrassing.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Preemptive response for the next round of questions.

    Why isn't the live stream up yet?

    Google Pacific Time vs Eastern Time

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #15 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Is anyone else's feed not live yet?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #16 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Is anyone else's feed not live yet?"


    What time does the women's race start and what is the current time in Victoria, BC genius?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
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    Report    REPLY #17 

    Dave said 1 week ago

    They would make more money letting people watch for free and have a advertisements on the stream. Now they will only have a few watching. Because I can wait 30min to see results. So dumb!!!!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #18 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Dave
    "They would make more money letting people watch for free and have a advertisements on the stream. Now they will only have a few watching. Because I can wait 30min to see results. So dumb!!!!"


    I disagree how much you think anyone is going to actual pay for advertisements on that stream? You will be surprised how many will fork over the $10

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #19 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Congratulations Sasha Gollish. Perfect peaking winning when it counts.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #20 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Can we please see the finishline as they come in for the mens race at least????????

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #21 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Can we please see the finishline as they come in for the mens race at least????????"


    Try tweeting at @geoff800

    Not sure how else you'd get in touch with the people running the cameras

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #22 

    Brandon Pinsent-oxle said 1 week ago

    I really love the production, definitely worth the money! I loved seeing the whole race instead of only the leaders, there was a good balance. Thank you so much!!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
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    Report    REPLY #23 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Congratulations Sasha Gollish. Perfect peaking winning when it counts."

    And real gutsy ... not.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #24 

    anonymous said 1 week ago

    Horrific coverage. Huge problem with the fact that Geoff said he knows nothing about XC or how to score it. How about getting someone who knows the runners' names, who knows who won the previous year, and who has actually run in the past?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Sasha Gollish executed at the most important race in Canadian University cross country.

    Any doubters left? [cue tumbleweeds]

    It wasn't peaking: it was mental instinct to go for the win. No race has a guaranteed outcome, and while Windsor may have shown one possible winner, it isn't ever a lock.

    It is amazing to see youth progress, and equally as amazing to see experience succeed, with age being no limiter. I wish our system would get their heads around the idea that making world beaters at 21 is a bad idea., and that writing someone off because they are older is even worse,

    We should celebrate all of these women's efforts on the course.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Why couldn't Cole Peterson or someone who knows something about XC commentate??? Also WHY WOULD THEY NOT SHOW THE FINISH WHILE PEOPLE ARE FINISHING?! ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE

    Quote comment
  • opeongo-runner User since:
    Sep 24th, 2016
    Posts: 3
    thumbs_up 4
    Report    REPLY #27 

    Opeongo Runner said 1 week ago

    I've not seen any team results yet. That's very disappointing for a cross country National championship and the athletes Universities are not identified in the live results too.

    Quote comment
  • oldlegs User since:
    May 1st, 2006
    Posts: 32
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    Report    REPLY #28 

    oldlegs said 1 week ago

    WOW, the U of T girls prove that OUs mean nothing when you add the other region's teams into the mix. Looking at the 3rd to 4th lap splits, they really put the boots to Queen's on the last lap . Not bad with their 3 and 4 runners being 800m specialists having to run 8km instead of the shorter courses of yesteryear. Congrats ladies.... .

    This post was edited by oldlegs 1 week ago . 
    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    anticlimactic result said 1 week ago

    Individual results are posted without listing schools. Is there a trick to find team results? Horrible results page, or just my browser? I was so excited to check results and now I still don't know team champions. Sad.

    This post was edited by a Moderator [Issues] 1 week ago . 
    Message from Moderator:
    http://racedaytiming.ca/results/2017USPORTSXCWomen/team/results
    If you have issues/questions please contact moderator@trackie.com.
    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Is it UofT, Queens, Laval, UVic & Guelph for top five?

    Quote comment
  • master2b User since:
    Jun 9th, 2011
    Posts: 125
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    Report    REPLY #31 

    Master2B said 1 week ago

    I'm a little surprised the live results only have the top 2 listed! Congrats to Sasha and Branna on the 1-2 finish.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    team results said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Opeongo Runner
    "I've not seen any team results yet. That's very disappointing for a cross country National championship and the athletes Universities are not identified in the live results too."



    Team Results: https://racedaytiming.ca/results/2017USPORTSXCWomen/team/results

    Toronto won it.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Master2B
    "I'm a little surprised the live results only have the top 2 listed! Congrats to Sasha and Branna on the 1-2 finish."


    Full results: https://racedaytiming.ca/results/2017USPORTSXCWomen#.WgjDjLacZE5

    Quote comment
  • opeongo-runner User since:
    Sep 24th, 2016
    Posts: 3
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    Opeongo Runner said 1 week ago

    Thanks for the link to full results!

    Quote comment
  • nc-blogger User since:
    Sep 12th, 2014
    Posts: 610
    thumbs_up 14
    Report    REPLY #35 

    NC Blogger said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "And real gutsy ... not."


    Go back to the thread you started after OU's - or crawl back under your rock.

    Well done Sasha and all the Lady Blues!

    This post was edited by NC Blogger 1 week ago . 
    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Thank you NC. Sasha peaked at the perfect time and led her team to gold. Awesome.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Not a criticism. Just a suggestion. In future can the team be added to the runners name in the live tracking results? Great live tracking though. Thanks.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #38 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Bigger question: Sheffar or Black to win the men’s 9.8km event??? Who you got?"

    Idk, depends if Usports can get officials who can rub two brain cells together. Maybe with their new pay wall they can afford it?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 39785
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    Report    REPLY #39 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: anticlimactic result
    "Individual results are posted without listing schools. Is there a trick to find team results? Horrible results page, or just my browser? I was so excited to check results and now I still don't know team champions. Sad."


    If you use Raceday Timing (works fine on mobile), not only do you get the live individual results, but the live team results are the end of every lap ;)

    Quote comment
  • nc-blogger User since:
    Sep 12th, 2014
    Posts: 610
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    Report    REPLY #40 

    NC Blogger said 1 week ago

    This post was edited by NC Blogger 1 week ago . 
    Quote comment
  • master2b User since:
    Jun 9th, 2011
    Posts: 125
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    Report    REPLY #41 

    Master2B said 1 week ago

    Thanks for the link and huge congrats to the Blues!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #42 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Thank you NC

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #43 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    can't believe I just paid to watch that coverage

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #44 

    Mixmaster said 1 week ago

    How many years in a row has McMaster gotten 4th?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #45 

    anticlimactic result said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Master2B
    "Thanks for the link and huge congrats to the Blues!"

    YES! Thank you to those who provided the link to raceday timing. Why would they have the results so quickly if the other company was the official (paid) timer? Very strange.
    I'm now climatic again.
    Cheers!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #46 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Frielink moves up to 1st place at 8km. At 9km he dropped to 68th. finishes at 104th. Wonder if he had a chance to stay up there. of course must have been a fall.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Holy camole!

    Calgary in second!

    Guelph first. Not like that was a huge surprise

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #48 

    Guelph said 1 week ago

    Gryphon Men have everyone returning next year.

    Welcome back to the top Boys.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #49 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Did Frielink take a page out of the Sheffar playbook and think he was done with 2 to go?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #50 

    Friend of Athlete said 1 week ago

    I couldn't attend in person to see my friend race so 10$ to witness is fair. If the weather had been better the drone would have been in use for the Women's Race. Thanks for the service.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #51 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Did Frielink take a page out of the Sheffar playbook and think he was done with 2 to go?"


    Yup. Apparently kicked at 7k thinking it was 9k.

    Quote comment
  • gcrunner User since:
    Apr 17th, 2012
    Posts: 9
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    Report    REPLY #52 

    gcrunner said 1 week ago

    Couldn't agree more about the problems with the commentating - including his attitude. Not only did he not know the sport, but he took it upon himself to constant remind, us, the paying subscribers, of his ignorance and why XC seemed for him to be drudgery and torture.

    Quote comment
  • buddy User since:
    Jun 8th, 2015
    Posts: 914
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    Report    REPLY #53 

    Buddy said 1 week ago

    Is she racing in Kingston?

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Congratulations Sasha Gollish. Perfect peaking winning when it counts."

    Quote comment
  • ctaylor94 User since:
    Nov 1st, 2017
    Posts: 1
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    Report    REPLY #54 

    Ctaylor94 said 1 week ago

    Is there a live replay anywhere?

    Quote comment
  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
    Posts: 677
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    Report    REPLY #55 

    Meizner said 1 week ago

    Interesting that TO, a middle D based squad did so well over 8k.
    Their OU vs. CIs scores are quite interesting to examine-- clutch performances all round.

    Gollish 1 (CI), 3(OU)
    LStaff 6-6
    Shukla 16-16
    Kelly 23-15
    Augustin 27-22

    To only have 2 runners place worse at CIs vs. OUs (by a total of 13 spots) and the 3 others combine to improve by 2 places is pretty incredible.

    McGill women seemed to be the least talked about team to come 6th-- well played.

    Windsor men did very well to come 6th-- they probably should never be counted out!

    Well done to all the teams.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #56 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    How about Shawn MF Master getting 11th out of no where, what a beauty

    Quote comment
  • milesdavisandthecool User since:
    Jan 21st, 2014
    Posts: 86
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    Report    REPLY #57 

    MilesDavisAndTheCool said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Sasha Gollish executed at the most important race in Canadian University cross country.

    Any doubters left? [cue tumbleweeds]

    It wasn't peaking: it was mental instinct to go for the win. No race has a guaranteed outcome, and while Windsor may have shown one possible winner, it isn't ever a lock.

    It is amazing to see youth progress, and equally as amazing to see experience succeed, with age being no limiter. I wish our system would get their heads around the idea that making world beaters at 21 is a bad idea., and that writing someone off because they are older is even worse,

    We should celebrate all of these women's efforts on the course."


    Honest question...what about that win am I celebrating? I watched an athlete who is closing in on almost 10 years over the upper limit for FISU eligibility (looking at the new limit of 25), with a lot more international experience, sit on 2 much younger athletes for 7.5 km, not taking a step of the lead duties at all. Maybe I'm just fussy, but I'm having a hard time getting excited for a result like that.

    That said, let's not bury the lead here...the U of T Blues TEAM really pulled through today, with huge improvements and peaking when it mattered most. I'm also excited to see what the future holds for Branna, Claire, Regan and so many of those girls out there running today.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    CRS said 1 week ago

    race of the day goes to Shawn Masters, ya bud

    This post was edited by a Moderator [Issues] 6 days ago . 
    Quote comment
  • oldlegs User since:
    May 1st, 2006
    Posts: 32
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    Report    REPLY #59 

    oldlegs said 1 week ago

    I guess the reason it is worth celebrating, is that she got beaten up on these boards about her OU performance, but turned that around to win-easily.

    Now, if the question is if U Sports should allow older students to run, well, that ship has sailed. This has been discussed for at least 30 years. Indeed you could make the argument that Gollish outperformed based on her age--as when she is on the other side of the age slide.

    There have been numerous top athletes who have "come back" to run after a long time out of the university system. eg. Peter Fonseca did this well after his first Olympic marathon. Leslie Carson did this way back to score very high on the women's side.

    Personally, I think it is great that older/ mature students have a shot to participate in university sport. Many kids don't even make that post-secondary choice until later in life. Why would we ban them from joining?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #60 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: oldlegs
    "I guess the reason it is worth celebrating, is that she got beaten up on these boards about her OU performance, but turned that around to win-easily.

    Now, if the question is if U Sports should allow older students to run, well, that ship has sailed. This has been discussed for at least 30 years. Indeed you could make the argument that Gollish outperformed based on her age--as when she is on the other side of the age slide.

    There have been numerous top athletes who have "come back" to run after a long time out of the university system. eg. Peter Fonseca did this well after his first Olympic marathon. Leslie Carson did this way back to score very high on the women's side.

    Personally, I think it is great that older/ mature students have a shot to participate in university sport. Many kids don't even make that post-secondary choice until later in life. Why would we ban them from joining?"


    One question might be how level the playing field is with an athlete like Gollish included in USport? By her own admission she is a professional runner who is well sponsored and funded by AC. Gollish, herself, has spoken to the stresses and strains associated with being a student athlete. Perhaps this is an area USport or OUA needs to develop some policies around. I believe football has some very clear rules around professional athletes eligibility in university sport.

    Quote comment
  • master2b User since:
    Jun 9th, 2011
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    Master2B said 1 week ago

    I think for some 35+ would be a disadvantage. It is obviously working for Sasha. And I don't understand why people think Sasha had to lead for the win to be celebrated. She was either at the front of the lead pack or within a second. Perhaps the 2 Queen's athletes were using team tactics on her and trying to drop her? Either way she was the smarter and stronger athlete on the day and all that matters is that she crossed the finish line first.

    Would you have objected if Gabriela Stafford had run the same way? She has international experience, Olympics specifically, and is within the FISU age limit.

    I hope USport does not put in age restrictions as I think the level of competition would drop. The NCAA D1 can have age restrictions because they have a very high level of competition with age restrictions. D2 has a lower level of competition and no age limit.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #62 

    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    She got beaten up on these boards because of her excuse filled interview, not because she lost. She had a sub par OU performance and was beaten by some talented young runners and refused to acknowledge either of those factors.

    Quoting: oldlegs
    "I guess the reason it is worth celebrating, is that she got beaten up on these boards about her OU performance, but turned that around to win-easily."

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  • meizner User since:
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    Meizner said 1 week ago

    No chirping about Olympian Findlay coming back to run for Alberta? I don't get it-- these experienced top athletes only make the league/ sport better. No athlete worth their salt shoudl revel in winning a weak/ watered down division.

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  • milesdavisandthecool User since:
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    MilesDavisAndTheCool said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Master2B
    "I think for some 35+ would be a disadvantage. It is obviously working for Sasha. And I don't understand why people think Sasha had to lead for the win to be celebrated. She was either at the front of the lead pack or within a second. Perhaps the 2 Queen's athletes were using team tactics on her and trying to drop her? Either way she was the smarter and stronger athlete on the day and all that matters is that she crossed the finish line first.

    Would you have objected if Gabriela Stafford had run the same way? She has international experience, Olympics specifically, and is within the FISU age limit.

    I hope USport does not put in age restrictions as I think the level of competition would drop. The NCAA D1 can have age restrictions because they have a very high level of competition with age restrictions. D2 has a lower level of competition and no age limit."


    Physically, perhaps for some, but then, both you and I know that is not the case for the athlete being discussed. I think there is a lot to be said for the "race smarts" one picks up along the way.

    Here's the thing with your statement: I didn't see Sasha at the front of that pack, not even once, until there was 500m left to go. You call it smart, I call it disrespectful (whether intended or not). You may not agree, but I think there is an unspoken agreement in distance running that unless someone is a designated pacer, if you're able, you take a turn at pulling up front...we can agree that based on her performance, she would have been able?

    So, with that criteria, yes, I would have been equally irritated if G.S had done the same thing. And I don't even have to imagine that hard if I think back to the 2017 USport 3000m final (G.S sat on R.Ys tail for 2800m).

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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: MilesDavisAndTheCool
    "You may not agree, but I think there is an unspoken agreement in distance running that unless someone is a designated pacer, if you're able, you take a turn at pulling up front...we can agree that based on her performance, she would have been able?
    "


    If it's a time-trial like scenario in a nothing mid-season meet, then yeah, you've got a point.

    But this was a championship race where the medals are awarded to the first athlete across the finish, not which athlete led more of the race. (Please identify any races where this is not the case.)

    Should Geb and Bekele not have received their gold medals for sitting on the leaders and then kicking away for the Olympic title?

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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Frielink moves up to 1st place at 8km. At 9km he dropped to 68th. finishes at 104th. Wonder if he had a chance to stay up there. of course must have been a fall."


    Did Frielink fade dramatically over the final 2k due to a fall? Did Sheffar fade dramatically over the final 2k due to a fall? Did everyone from Western except their top man and woman fall?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: MilesDavisAndTheCool
    "Physically, perhaps for some, but then, both you and I know that is not the case for the athlete being discussed. I think there is a lot to be said for the "race smarts" one picks up along the way.

    Here's the thing with your statement: I didn't see Sasha at the front of that pack, not even once, until there was 500m left to go. You call it smart, I call it disrespectful (whether intended or not). You may not agree, but I think there is an unspoken agreement in distance running that unless someone is a designated pacer, if you're able, you take a turn at pulling up front...we can agree that based on her performance, she would have been able?

    So, with that criteria, yes, I would have been equally irritated if G.S had done the same thing. And I don't even have to imagine that hard if I think back to the 2017 USport 3000m final (G.S sat on R.Ys tail for 2800m)."



    Does this apply to Championship racing? I certainly see your point in the context of Invite/All-comer meets where athletes are going for a fast time (without a pacer or after the pacer has dropped out). But in the context of a championship race, I think your view of informal pacing agreements will leave you perpetually disappointed with 'Champions' around the world (the majority of Olympic Champions and World Champions over 5k and 10k in the last 20 years for starters).

    Getting to the line first means playing to your strengths and your opponents weaknesses. Beyond that, you follow the explicit rules of the sport that lead to fair play. The beauty of these longer XC races is that the 'fast kicker' often gets dropped long before they have a chance to use it. This gives the glory to the few who are brave enough to push the middle third of the race.

    On Sunday, it seems the leaders weren't able to drop Sasha. One thing they had all the power in the world to do was casually let up and float around to the back of the lead pack or perhaps move to SG's shoulder and reverse their tactics. Again, how do I get to the finish line first? Not an easy problem to solve, but you have the freedom to go about it in any way you want without any need to rely on others around you (the uncontrollables...)

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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: MilesDavisAndTheCool
    "Physically, perhaps for some, but then, both you and I know that is not the case for the athlete being discussed. I think there is a lot to be said for the "race smarts" one picks up along the way.

    Here's the thing with your statement: I didn't see Sasha at the front of that pack, not even once, until there was 500m left to go. You call it smart, I call it disrespectful (whether intended or not). You may not agree, but I think there is an unspoken agreement in distance running that unless someone is a designated pacer, if you're able, you take a turn at pulling up front...we can agree that based on her performance, she would have been able?

    So, with that criteria, yes, I would have been equally irritated if G.S had done the same thing. And I don't even have to imagine that hard if I think back to the 2017 USport 3000m final (G.S sat on R.Ys tail for 2800m)."


    There is no unwritten lead sharing rule. They are racing. Leading and pushing the pace as a tactic is no more honourable than Gollish's tactic. Leading is also not an unintelligent strategy especially when team tactics are considered. I wouldn't consider what the queen's ladies did stupid they simply got beat by a better runner on the day.

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  • mattnorminton User since:
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    mattnorminton said 6 days ago

    Quoting: MilesDavisAndTheCool
    "I didn't see Sasha at the front of that pack, not even once, until there was 500m left to go. You call it smart, I call it disrespectful (whether intended or not). You may not agree, but I think there is an unspoken agreement in distance running that unless someone is a designated pacer, if you're able, you take a turn at pulling up front...we can agree that based on her performance, she would have been able?"


    I think you are correct for any non championship race however at championship races where the only thing that matters is place, you do what you need to do in order to achieve that goal. Not saying that's how I would have done it but I don't think you can fault her for sitting and kicking when it results in a win and helps her team win the title.

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  • athletics-illustrated User since:
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    Athletics Illustrated said 6 days ago

    If anyone thinks that Gollish was full of excuses, read the bottom portion of this article. I observed the opposite: http://athleticsillustrated.com/editorial/gollish-and-sikubwabo-win-u-sport-cross-country-championships/

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    Anonymous said 6 days ago

    Excuses? Why? She won.

    Quoting: Athletics Illustrated
    "If anyone thinks that Gollish was full of excuses, read the bottom portion of this article. I observed the opposite: http://athleticsillustrated.com/editorial/gollish-and-sikubwabo-win-u-sport-cross-country-championships/"

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 6 days ago

    Quoting: Athletics Illustrated
    "If anyone thinks that Gollish was full of excuses, read the bottom portion of this article. I observed the opposite: http://athleticsillustrated.com/editorial/gollish-and-sikubwabo-win-u-sport-cross-country-championships/"


    Try actually reading the threads to understand what's going on before spamming your AI articles

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  • athletics-illustrated User since:
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    Athletics Illustrated said 6 days ago

    "Spamming"

    Thanks "anonymous", you braveheart you.

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  • master2b User since:
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    Master2B said 6 days ago

    As said by the two Queen's athletes in their interview, it was THEIR strategy to go hard together from the gun. If Sasha is comfortable at the pace they are setting, why would she take the lead? Should she have gone harder than she wanted to go just to please the keyboard warriors on this forum?

    Both Claire and Branna are great runners but Sasha just happened to be better on the day. I'm excited to see them all race again in Kingston.

    https://www.trackie.com/track-and-field/TrackieTV/branna-macdougall-and-claire-sumner-interview-2017-u-sport-cross-country-championships/7429/

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  • michaelrochus User since:
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    MichaelRochus said 6 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "One question might be how level the playing field is with an athlete like Gollish included in USport? By her own admission she is a professional runner who is well sponsored and funded by AC. Gollish, herself, has spoken to the stresses and strains associated with being a student athlete. Perhaps this is an area USport or OUA needs to develop some policies around. I believe football has some very clear rules around professional athletes eligibility in university sport."


    This is a valid point! And while I understand Meizner’s point of league improvement, it is my personal belief that USport is an amateur league and should probably be kept to amateurs... as is the case with other sports. Maybe we’ve been looking at this wrong ie. experience vs. youth instead of profession vs. amateur.

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  • bestcoach User since:
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    BestCoach said 6 days ago

    You don't have to lead to win LOL
    do you want respect or a medal?

    just be a dick like the "king"


    This post was edited by BestCoach 6 days ago . 
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  • bestcoach User since:
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    BestCoach said 6 days ago

    The other professional athlete from Toronto did not race. Why not?

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  • bestcoach User since:
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    BestCoach said 6 days ago

    If you are your team mate are going 1-2 why is there a need to crush them at the line?

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    Anonymous said 6 days ago

    Quoting: BestCoach
    "If you are your team mate are going 1-2 why is there a need to crush them at the line?

    "



    ...... because it is a race and you want to win??? You think that they shouldn't bother pushing? What's the point of running then?? Why would you want to hold back?

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    Anonymous said 6 days ago

    Is the goal to win team or individual?

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  • meizner User since:
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    Meizner said 6 days ago

    Quoting: MichaelRochus
    "This is a valid point! And while I understand Meizner’s point of league improvement, it is my personal belief that USport is an amateur league and should probably be kept to amateurs... as is the case with other sports. Maybe we’ve been looking at this wrong ie. experience vs. youth instead of profession vs. amateur."


    Your personal belief is not in line with uSports rules and hasn't for a long time (since I was an athelte in the 90s at least). For as long as I remember athletes in uSports have been able to collect prize money, be sponsored, take AC cards etc.

    By your criteria, if it comes out that B-Mac/ Sumner have accepted prize money from road races (as I am sure most of the top 20 runners in each race have), are they also DQ'd? What defines a 'professional' by your rules? I would highly doubt that Gollish earns even 5 figures from endorsements (likely product only with some bonuses in the structure)-- her income is likely largely related to rr winnings. Gollish isn't even carded.

    Should every athlete with an apparel sponsorship, AC carding or who has pocketed 50 bucks at a local rr not be allowed to compete? What about all the 'pro' triathletes in the race-- are they ineligible?

    Changing the rules would take away some of the major incentives that CIS runners have for staying at home.

    Your point of view is somewhat arbitrary/ inconsistent.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 6 days ago

    It's none of your business why she didn't race

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 6 days ago

    Quoting: BestCoach
    "The other professional athlete from Toronto did not race. Why not?"


    G. Stafford had a foot injury but is back training again now.

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  • meizner User since:
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    Meizner said 6 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "It's none of your business why she didn't race"


    I don't think G-Stafford counts as a pro according to Rochus because she's under 25-- I think I got it right Mike? ;)

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    Anonymous said 6 days ago

    [QUOTE]Quoting: BestCoach
    "If you are your team mate are going 1-2 why is there a need to crush them at the line?

    What are you trying to say here?

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  • speedyredbull User since:
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    Speedyredbull said 5 days ago

    Put aside your biases against Sasha as a person, or even as an athlete in general (as there are obviously a number of people who have a negative point of view regarding how she conducts herself at times). There are no rules dictating that someone has to lead or "do some work" at the front in order to deserve to win. This IS a part of racing...and while she may or may not have been showing respect to the other super talented (and seemingly more likeable, based on comments I have seen) athletes in that pack, she raced to win. This is a great discussion :)

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Will a full replay of the races be available for free?

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  • mattnorminton User since:
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    mattnorminton said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "Your personal belief is not in line with uSports rules and hasn't for a long time (since I was an athelte in the 90s at least). For as long as I remember athletes in uSports have been able to collect prize money, be sponsored, take AC cards etc.

    By your criteria, if it comes out that B-Mac/ Sumner have accepted prize money from road races (as I am sure most of the top 20 runners in each race have), are they also DQ'd? What defines a 'professional' by your rules? I would highly doubt that Gollish earns even 5 figures from endorsements (likely product only with some bonuses in the structure)-- her income is likely largely related to rr winnings. Gollish isn't even carded.

    Should every athlete with an apparel sponsorship, AC carding or who has pocketed 50 bucks at a local rr not be allowed to compete? What about all the 'pro' triathletes in the race-- are they ineligible?

    Changing the rules would take away some of the major incentives that CIS runners have for staying at home.

    Your point of view is somewhat arbitrary/ inconsistent."


    Agree, I'd hate to see Canadian university/collegiate sports go down the NCAA route of amateurism. Mature athletes like Gollish and Findlay bring something to sport by competing, lets not change that.

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  • michaelrochus User since:
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    MichaelRochus said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "Your personal belief is not in line with uSports rules and hasn't for a long time (since I was an athelte in the 90s at least). For as long as I remember athletes in uSports have been able to collect prize money, be sponsored, take AC cards etc.

    By your criteria, if it comes out that B-Mac/ Sumner have accepted prize money from road races (as I am sure most of the top 20 runners in each race have), are they also DQ'd? What defines a 'professional' by your rules? I would highly doubt that Gollish earns even 5 figures from endorsements (likely product only with some bonuses in the structure)-- her income is likely largely related to rr winnings. Gollish isn't even carded.

    Should every athlete with an apparel sponsorship, AC carding or who has pocketed 50 bucks at a local rr not be allowed to compete? What about all the 'pro' triathletes in the race-- are they ineligible?

    Changing the rules would take away some of the major incentives that CIS runners have for staying at home.

    Your point of view is somewhat arbitrary/ inconsistent."


    Probably not, but I’m not that delusional to think that all my opinions should be codified (what a world that would be). However, the comment I quoted was talking about policy changes for the future and not DQing the current champion.

    You’ve nailed my opinion on the head, if not with your tongue in your cheek. This is nothing personal against the U of T or Miss Gollish, so yes, whether it be Gael or Voyageur, my opinion doesn’t change.

    Interesting questions...and here’s where it gets arbitrary: I wouldn’t outlaw winning 50 bucks at a road race, but if you have guaranteed income or apparel from a 3rd party based on your prowess in a sport, you’re a pro. Triathletes are tricky...I’d be ok with letting them in, I think. I think most university “pros” only get their bike stuff covered. If they had a shoe deal, that might get tricky.

    I think what it comes down to is this: how do you view collegiate sports? Are they profit making entertainment for the masses? Let the pros in. Is it more of a developmental process for its participants? If yes, then how do pros fit into that picture?

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Michael - arbitrary doesn't help anyone.

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  • rembrandt User since:
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    Rembrandt said 5 days ago

    Quoting: MichaelRochus


    I think what it comes down to is this: how do you view collegiate sports? Are they profit making entertainment for the masses? Let the pros in. Is it more of a developmental process for its participants? If yes, then how do pros fit into that picture?"



    Few things wrong with this paragraph and your line of thinking:
    1. USport is under no obligation to develop athletes.
    2. Even if #1 was false and USport was under some obligation to assist in the "developmental process" for athletes; pros still develop. It's silly to think otherwise.

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    seent it said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Frielink moves up to 1st place at 8km. At 9km he dropped to 68th. finishes at 104th. Wonder if he had a chance to stay up there. of course must have been a fall."



    Nope, he just imploded really badly and was basically walking backwards ~9km. Saw it happen. Rough.

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Rembrandt
    "Few things wrong with this paragraph and your line of thinking:
    1. USport is under no obligation to develop athletes.
    2. Even if #1 was false and USport was under some obligation to assist in the "developmental process" for athletes; pros still develop. It's silly to think otherwise."


    Bottom line......do pros compete with amateurs in any other sport at the University level? If the answer is yes, then let's move on, but if the answer is no......

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  • meizner User since:
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    Meizner said 5 days ago

    Quoting: MichaelRochus
    "Probably not, but I’m not that delusional to think that all my opinions should be codified (what a world that would be). However, the comment I quoted was talking about policy changes for the future and not DQing the current champion.

    You’ve nailed my opinion on the head, if not with your tongue in your cheek. This is nothing personal against the U of T or Miss Gollish, so yes, whether it be Gael or Voyageur, my opinion doesn’t change.

    Interesting questions...and here’s where it gets arbitrary: I wouldn’t outlaw winning 50 bucks at a road race, but if you have guaranteed income or apparel from a 3rd party based on your prowess in a sport, you’re a pro. Triathletes are tricky...I’d be ok with letting them in, I think. I think most university “pros” only get their bike stuff covered. If they had a shoe deal, that might get tricky.

    I think what it comes down to is this: how do you view collegiate sports? Are they profit making entertainment for the masses? Let the pros in. Is it more of a developmental process for its participants? If yes, then how do pros fit into that picture?"


    The infrastructure required to create a meaningful regulatory environment to prevent a few athletes from competing who happen to collect a bit of kit and maybe a few bucks from an apparel company would create such a burden on the institution that it would far outwiegh any small perceived benefit. The NCAA can afford to have a massive administration to deal with its complex regulatory compliance largely because it is necessary/ funded by the big$$ sports. There is no such need/ money in the CIS system.

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  • groaker User since:
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    Groaker said 5 days ago

    Quoting: MichaelRochus
    "Probably not, but I’m not that delusional to think that all my opinions should be codified (what a world that would be). However, the comment I quoted was talking about policy changes for the future and not DQing the current champion.

    You’ve nailed my opinion on the head, if not with your tongue in your cheek. This is nothing personal against the U of T or Miss Gollish, so yes, whether it be Gael or Voyageur, my opinion doesn’t change.

    Interesting questions...and here’s where it gets arbitrary: I wouldn’t outlaw winning 50 bucks at a road race, but if you have guaranteed income or apparel from a 3rd party based on your prowess in a sport, you’re a pro. Triathletes are tricky...I’d be ok with letting them in, I think. I think most university “pros” only get their bike stuff covered. If they had a shoe deal, that might get tricky.

    I think what it comes down to is this: how do you view collegiate sports? Are they profit making entertainment for the masses? Let the pros in. Is it more of a developmental process for its participants? If yes, then how do pros fit into that picture?"


    Would you prefer if the coaches and IST were amateurs? Just think of how many injuries a large team like Guelph might have if their women and men weren't being cared for by professional coaches and IST? Seems like a dangerous path to go down, risking the health of athletes in the name of what, being amateur instead of professional.

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  • michaelrochus User since:
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    MichaelRochus said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Groaker
    "Would you prefer if the coaches and IST were amateurs? Just think of how many injuries a large team like Guelph might have if their women and men weren't being cared for by professional coaches and IST? Seems like a dangerous path to go down, risking the health of athletes in the name of what, being amateur instead of professional."


    Huh? Seems like a wee bit of stretch... I don't think that the IST or coaches are scoring points for their teams???

    Quoting: Meizner
    "The infrastructure required to create a meaningful regulatory environment to prevent a few athletes from competing who happen to collect a bit of kit and maybe a few bucks from an apparel company would create such a burden on the institution that it would far outwiegh any small perceived benefit. The NCAA can afford to have a massive administration to deal with its complex regulatory compliance largely because it is necessary/ funded by the big$$ sports. There is no such need/ money in the CIS system."


    I don't think we're going to agree on this Meizner (and that's fine), but I really don't think it would be as resource draining as you think, especially with social media.

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  • meizner User since:
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    Meizner said 5 days ago

    Quoting: MichaelRochus
    "I don't think we're going to agree on this Meizner (and that's fine), but I really don't think it would be as resource draining as you think, especially with social media."



    Are you proposing that the populous enforce the rules by trawling social media as a way of crowdsourcing the regulatory compliance body? That's rich!

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Did Gollish or Findlay race with their universities before the championship meets? Did they train with their teams throughout the season?

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    DoYouEvenCoach said 5 days ago

    Quoting: BestCoach
    "If you are your team mate are going 1-2 why is there a need to crush them at the line?

    "


    Do you tell your athletes to all run side by side to avoid drafting off each other and cross the finish holding hands?

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  • groaker User since:
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    Groaker said 5 days ago

    Quoting: MichaelRochus
    "Huh? Seems like a wee bit of stretch... I don't think that the IST or coaches are scoring points for their teams???."


    No, MichaelRochus, the IST and coaches are not LITERALLY scoring points for their teams, and neither is the money that a professional or carded athlete makes. Sad how often posters on here feign ignorance to ignore having to address a discussion point. The common factor among these clearly legitimate comparisons is the impact that they have upon the actual athletes, who do score points, unless they are injured and not racing, of course. If you removed athletes who are receiving carding money, made money at road races, are taking less than a 100% course load, are too old by your standards, and any other items you may wish to complain about, there would be very little competition left in the USports system. This forum would have to start focusing on other meets like Canadian XC instead just for something to talk about.

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  • michaelrochus User since:
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    MichaelRochus said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Groaker
    "No, MichaelRochus, the IST and coaches are not LITERALLY scoring points for their teams, and neither is the money that a professional or carded athlete makes. Sad how often posters on here feign ignorance to ignore having to address a discussion point. The common factor among these clearly legitimate comparisons is the impact that they have upon the actual athletes, who do score points, unless they are injured and not racing, of course. If you removed athletes who are receiving carding money, made money at road races, are taking less than a 100% course load, are too old by your standards, and any other items you may wish to complain about, there would be very little competition left in the USports system. This forum would have to start focusing on other meets like Canadian XC instead just for something to talk about."


    Tell me exactly where I brought up age or course load. Also, while you're at it, produce for me a model of amateurism that has mandated use of amateur IST.
    And what would be so wrong about focusing on non-university meets??? Shouldn't that be a goal of ours, to set up some sort of cross season for pros and post collegiates?
    With all due respect, the way you're preaching from your imaginary soapbox makes me think that an actual discussion is not something you're really interested in.

    Quoting: Meizner
    "Are you proposing that the populous enforce the rules by trawling social media as a way of crowdsourcing the regulatory compliance body? That's rich!"


    Well, this took an Orwellian turn... No, what was actually implied is that those who are sponsored, make no secret of it (that's the whole reason sponsorship works...). I would tend to think that all coaches would have a pretty good idea on their athletes sponsorship situation.

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  • bear-scout User since:
    Nov 4th, 2016
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    Bear Scout said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "The infrastructure required to create a meaningful regulatory environment to prevent a few athletes from competing who happen to collect a bit of kit and maybe a few bucks from an apparel company would create such a burden on the institution that it would far outwiegh any small perceived benefit. The NCAA can afford to have a massive administration to deal with its complex regulatory compliance largely because it is necessary/ funded by the big$$ sports. There is no such need/ money in the CIS system."


    Actually, no. That is not how it works. Schools have their own compliance departments that are in charge of making sure athletes are eligible. The NCAA (to my knowledge) does not go out of it's way to find schools that break the rules. However, it would be very simple for someone to inform the NCAA of a violation (*cough* rival school *cough*), so it is in the compliance office's best interest to handle it themselves before the NCAA even finds out (because, like we recently saw in the AUS-football situation, the NCAA/CIS will often punish the entire team, a much worse scenario then if the school just removed the player).

    BTW, the phrase "complex regulatory compliance" is laughable. The rules for eligibility in the NCAA are very cut and dry. You can't take any money whatsoever because of your status as a student athlete. Period.

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  • nc-blogger User since:
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    NC Blogger said 5 days ago

    Quoting: MilesDavisAndTheCool
    "I think there is an unspoken agreement in distance running that unless someone is a designated pacer, if you're able, you take a turn at pulling up front...we can agree that based on her performance, she would have been able?"


    I would say a definite, "NO" to this considering it was championship racing. How many have called Farah a coward for his back to back Olympic / WC doubles in the 5000 and 10000 (2012-2016)? During championship racing, you play to your strengths, not the rest of the fields, and do what it takes to win.

    Now, you can watch videos online, go ahead and watch all 8 races. I'm willing to bet Sasha led for longer at USport XC than Mo did in all eight of his gold medals combined (10 if you include the 5000 from 2011 and the 10000 from 2017).

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  • nc-blogger User since:
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    NC Blogger said 5 days ago

    Quoting: mattnorminton
    "Agree, I'd hate to see Canadian university/collegiate sports go down the NCAA route of amateurism. Mature athletes like Gollish and Findlay bring something to sport by competing, lets not change that."


    Way back in the day, I lost my only real crack at a CIAU XC title because some 35 year old steeple guy who was apparently pretty good, Graeme Fell, came back for a year at UBC.

    I don't bemoan the fact. It's kinda neat I got to toe the line with an Olympian, but I do bemoan the fact that they only awarded the championship team with any awards back then.

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  • evan-dunfee User since:
    Jul 11th, 2017
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    Evan Dunfee said 5 days ago

    Quoting: DoYouEvenCoach
    "Do you tell your athletes to all run side by side to avoid drafting off each other and cross the finish holding hands?"


    I can confidently advise against holding hands across the finish line. Inaki and I did that in the 2009 NAIA Champs. Despite having over 300m on 3rd place, with 200m to go we knew neither of us was going to give an inch and couldn't risk either of us getting disqualified, we agreed to hold hands across the line. The NAIA tried to disqualify us for not giving "an honest effort". It was quite funny.

    But to my main point: USport should be tasked with developing good people first, and good athletes 2nd. What percent of these athletes actually go on to be national team runners? Vs. how many of them go off to promote physical activity in their communities after university?

    My opinion on this amateur vs. professional thing is just that, it's my opinion... it isn't based on tons of knowledge and it is certainly open to be swayed with more info, but I really think that athletes like Paula and Sasha are great role models for their teammates and I think that the whole system benefits from having athletes like them in it.

    Instead of trying to knit pick at other peoples opinions why don't we accept them for what they are, and if they seem glaringly off base, then provide some info that may help that person adapt their opinion. Anyone who tears down someone else's opinion without providing reasoning isn't worth engaging with, and similarly anyone whose opinion is so strong unwavering to any new info is also not worth engaging with.


    As I wrote this I realized that I have a lot of bias here. I never competed in CIS as I went to UBC (and I walk). And I had my final year of eligibility stripped away from me because I took a year off of school and the NAIA declared that because I took a year off to compete at a higher level that that would count as a year of eligibility... that was the year I tried (and failed) to qualify for the 2012 Olympics. In my 3 years at UBC before that I wasn't a great teammate. I was selfish, I was independent, I didn't care too much about the whole "team" idea. But after 2012 when I came back to school I had learned a lot about myself and wanted to be more of a leader, and take on a bigger role and be more a part of that team. And that opportunity was taken away from me. Obviously for me things turned out alright and I am still pursuing my goals in sport, but what if things hadn't turned out that way and I lost a huge chance to be a leader and continue to grow as a person in that context?
    I don't know. Just felt like adding that little anecdote would help clarify why I feel the way I should. Sorry for the length, brevity has never been my strong suit.

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  • roach User since:
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    Roach said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Groaker
    "No, MichaelRochus, the IST and coaches are not LITERALLY scoring points for their teams, and neither is the money that a professional or carded athlete makes. Sad how often posters on here feign ignorance to ignore having to address a discussion point. The common factor among these clearly legitimate comparisons is the impact that they have upon the actual athletes, who do score points, unless they are injured and not racing, of course. If you removed athletes who are receiving carding money, made money at road races, are taking less than a 100% course load, are too old by your standards, and any other items you may wish to complain about, there would be very little competition left in the USports system. This forum would have to start focusing on other meets like Canadian XC instead just for something to talk about."


    I don't think that there is an issue with professionals running in the USport system, but my main issue with Sasha is she only showed up for championship races. I think it should be mandatory that if an athlete is really committed to running at OUA and USport, they need to run at least one preseason xc meet. (Unless injury is an issue, which happens. In that case, there should be an injury exception.) In Sasha's case, if running OUA and USport was a priority, I don't think it would have been too difficult to fit in one cross race considering she did race earlier in October (San Jose Half)

    PS I should add that I am in favour of having professional athletes in the Usport XC. It adds some more talent to an already loaded field and I think makes for some exciting races (like this weekend) and as a fan of the sport it can create some cool storylines (like Sasha's or Paula Findley entering this weekend)

    This post was edited by Roach 5 days ago . 
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  • groaker User since:
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    Groaker said 5 days ago

    Roach, I agree, 1 non-championship race is quite fair.

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  • bestcoach User since:
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    BestCoach said 5 days ago

    as a policy we don't sit n kick off teammates

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Bottom line......do pros compete with amateurs in any other sport at the University level? If the answer is yes, then let's move on, but if the answer is no......"



    yes - every single USport sport has pros/former pros competing.

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  • bestcoach User since:
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    BestCoach said 5 days ago

    If a team MATE does ALL the work in a 3000m+ race and you blow by them with 200m to go, you're a dick. Key words though, MATE and ALL.

    some teams (in Toronto) don't have any mates.

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Quoting: BestCoach
    "If a team MATE does ALL the work in a 3000m+ race and you blow by them with 200m to go, you're a dick. Key words though, MATE and ALL.

    some teams (in Toronto) don't have any mates."


    Just curious, what is your beef with U of T/UTTC? Or what has the school/club done to disrespect you?

    You seem to have a lot of bitterness.

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    XCC said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Evan Dunfee
    "I can confidently advise against holding hands across the finish line. Inaki and I did that in the 2009 NAIA Champs. Despite having over 300m on 3rd place, with 200m to go we knew neither of us was going to give an inch and couldn't risk either of us getting disqualified, we agreed to hold hands across the line. The NAIA tried to disqualify us for not giving "an honest effort". It was quite funny.

    But to my main point: USport should be tasked with developing good people first, and good athletes 2nd. What percent of these athletes actually go on to be national team runners? Vs. how many of them go off to promote physical activity in their communities after university?

    My opinion on this amateur vs. professional thing is just that, it's my opinion... it isn't based on tons of knowledge and it is certainly open to be swayed with more info, but I really think that athletes like Paula and Sasha are great role models for their teammates and I think that the whole system benefits from having athletes like them in it.

    Instead of trying to knit pick at other peoples opinions why don't we accept them for what they are, and if they seem glaringly off base, then provide some info that may help that person adapt their opinion. Anyone who tears down someone else's opinion without providing reasoning isn't worth engaging with, and similarly anyone whose opinion is so strong unwavering to any new info is also not worth engaging with.


    As I wrote this I realized that I have a lot of bias here. I never competed in CIS as I went to UBC (and I walk). And I had my final year of eligibility stripped away from me because I took a year off of school and the NAIA declared that because I took a year off to compete at a higher level that that would count as a year of eligibility... that was the year I tried (and failed) to qualify for the 2012 Olympics. In my 3 years at UBC before that I wasn't a great teammate. I was selfish, I was independent, I didn't care too much about the whole "team" idea. But after 2012 when I came back to school I had learned a lot about myself and wanted to be more of a leader, and take on a bigger role and be more a part of that team. And that opportunity was taken away from me. Obviously for me things turned out alright and I am still pursuing my goals in sport, but what if things hadn't turned out that way and I lost a huge chance to be a leader and continue to grow as a person in that context?
    I don't know. Just felt like adding that little anecdote would help clarify why I feel the way I should. Sorry for the length, brevity has never been my strong suit."


    My takeaway from this is that the NAIA is kinda shitty at administering rules. UBC, the CIS is calling!

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  • just-another-runner User since:
    Oct 1st, 2014
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    just another runner said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "I believe football has some very clear rules around professional athletes eligibility in university sport."

    not sure about very clear (see SMU scandal last week) but they do supposedly have some rules

    This post was edited by just another runner 5 days ago . 
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  • johnstuarthobbes User since:
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    JohnStuartHobbes said 5 days ago

    Quoting: just another runner
    "not sure about very clear (see SMU scandal last week) but they do supposedly have some rules"


    My understanding is that the rules are quite clear. Athletes have to wait at least one year after playing in the CFL before they can play in the AUS (not sure about CIS) at least. Also of note, the SMU scandal is still ongoing. SMU just launched legal action.

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Quoting: BestCoach
    "If a team MATE does ALL the work in a 3000m+ race and you blow by them with 200m to go, you're a dick. Key words though, MATE and ALL.

    some teams (in Toronto) don't have any mates."



    where the heck is this coming from? The U of T team happens to be an incredibly uplifting, supportive and wonderful group of people that I as an athlete am lucky to race against. Quit being disrespectful and rude.

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Gollish is also training out of Portland pretty consistently now (based on that Orwell-ian social media trolling), as she is no longer a UTTC athlete in principle (although she will likely remain "registered" with the club for AC purposes).

    So she's training out of province/country for large chunks of the season, and only racing the championship meets.

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Everyone should of watched thicc for vic snap story instead of paying $10 for a live stream...

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  • rembrandt User since:
    Mar 2nd, 2015
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    Rembrandt said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "where the heck is this coming from? The U of T team happens to be an incredibly uplifting, supportive and wonderful group of people that I as an athlete am lucky to race against. Quit being disrespectful and rude."



    Jealousy

    This post was edited by Rembrandt 5 days ago . 
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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Gollish is also training out of Portland pretty consistently now (based on that Orwell-ian social media trolling), as she is no longer a UTTC athlete in principle (although she will likely remain "registered" with the club for AC purposes).

    So she's training out of province/country for large chunks of the season, and only racing the championship meets."


    Define what you mean by 'large chunks of the season'.

    What is your criteria for when out-of-town training means you aren't really a team member?

    Should other varsity athletes who come back to run National XC for their clubs not be included since they are only 'registered' with their club for AC purposes?

    What about post-collegians like Nate Brannen who has been running under Phoenix Athletics banner recently but probably has never done a club workout?

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    latecomer said 4 days ago

    I'm coming to this late. I just saw that Sasha Gollish won usport but how was she even eligible in the first place? She's a professional with sponsors right? Same with Paula Findlay.. how does that work?

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    Anonymous said 3 days ago

    Where is Laura Dickinson, the Guelph rookie? Injured?

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    Anonymous said 3 days ago

    Quoting: latecomer
    "I'm coming to this late. I just saw that Sasha Gollish won usport but how was she even eligible in the first place? She's a professional with sponsors right? Same with Paula Findlay.. how does that work?"


    Yep, you certainly are coming to this late.

    Do you have a reference to any document you've seen that suggests either of those two athletes shouldn't be eligible?

    Or is it just your personal opinion they shouldn't be eligible, regardless of what actual policies are?

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    Anonymous said 2 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Define what you mean by 'large chunks of the season'.

    What is your criteria for when out-of-town training means you aren't really a team member?

    Should other varsity athletes who come back to run National XC for their clubs not be included since they are only 'registered' with their club for AC purposes?

    What about post-collegians like Nate Brannen who has been running under Phoenix Athletics banner recently but probably has never done a club workout?"


    You're an idiot..

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    Anonymous said 2 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Define what you mean by 'large chunks of the season'.

    What is your criteria for when out-of-town training means you aren't really a team member?

    Should other varsity athletes who come back to run National XC for their clubs not be included since they are only 'registered' with their club for AC purposes?

    What about post-collegians like Nate Brannen who has been running under Phoenix Athletics banner recently but probably has never done a club workout?"



    AC Nationals and USports are completely different things. One is a school competition, where in order to be eligible, you need to be enrolled at the school. Granted, Sasha is indeed enrolled, doing her PhD - her training in Portland is unrelated to that. She is there training with a professional group, under a professional coach, as a professional runner. She then came back to race OUA's and CIS - likely doing few/if any workouts with the team as she is no longer coached by Ross/UTTC.

    You will likely see zero other examples of that in USports in any discipline or sport.

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    Anonymous said 2 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "
    You will likely see zero other examples of that in USports in any discipline or sport."


    Peter Fonseca?

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    Anonymous said 2 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Peter Fonseca?"


    Which "other discipline or sport" did Peter compete in?

    Stupidity and general inattention to detail knows no bounds on this board.

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    Anonymous said 1 day ago

    Except track and X are uniquely suited to this situation. SG is enrolled at U of T. She competes for U of T under the current rules. Maybe institute a 12 practice rule like OFSAA (What a joke of a rule LOL)

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    PB said 1 day ago

    While not technically violating U Sports rules, this undeniably violates the spirit of U Sports competition.


    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Granted, Sasha is indeed enrolled, doing her PhD - her training in Portland is unrelated to that. She is there training with a professional group, under a professional coach, as a professional runner. She then came back to race OUA's and CIS - likely doing few/if any workouts with the team as she is no longer coached by Ross/UTTC.

    You will likely see zero other examples of that in USports in any discipline or sport."

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    Anonymous said 1 day ago

    Please elaborate on the difference between discipline and sport? Why did you use two words here when one would have been sufficient?

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    Anonymous said 1 day ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Which "other discipline or sport" did Peter compete in?
    "


    When Peter competed for Windsor in 1994-95 (while also racing international marathons), did he train with the team so as to meet the apparent requirements in this thread?

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    Anonymous said 1 day ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "You're an idiot.."


    Possibly, but your comment doesn't even attempt to answer the question, so I may not be the only idiot:

    Define what you mean by 'large chunks of the season'.

    What is your criteria for when out-of-town training means you aren't really a team member?

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    Anonymous said 1 day ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Which "other discipline or sport" did Peter compete in?

    Stupidity and general inattention to detail knows no bounds on this board."


    You're the one not paying attention to detail! The previous post did NOT say "other discipline or sport" as you suggest. You really should be more careful when accusing people of being stupid.

    You will likely see zero other examples of that in USports in any discipline or sport."


    Peter is another example of that in USports in any discipline or sport.

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    keepinitreal said 1 day ago

    So you race against the U of T women's team which means you have intimate insight into the team dynamics and who likes who and who can't stand each other?

    How do you want to play this? honesty or sugar coat? or lets just change gears before it's too late.



    Quoting: Anonymous
    "where the heck is this coming from? The U of T team happens to be an incredibly uplifting, supportive and wonderful group of people that I as an athlete am lucky to race against. Quit being disrespectful and rude."

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    Travelling TF said 1 day ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "AC Nationals and USports are completely different things. One is a school competition, where in order to be eligible, you need to be enrolled at the school. Granted, Sasha is indeed enrolled, doing her PhD - her training in Portland is unrelated to that. She is there training with a professional group, under a professional coach, as a professional runner. She then came back to race OUA's and CIS - likely doing few/if any workouts with the team as she is no longer coached by Ross/UTTC.

    You will likely see zero other examples of that in USports in any discipline or sport."


    As a former OUA track and field athlete I take offence to the attitude that if you aren't with your coach/team every day you can't count as part of the team. While no where near as good a Sasha, I also have only showed up for championship meets. I was registered In a program where co-op placements were mandatory for graduation, and as a result, over multiple terms would be away from the school and only join up for meets. One year, I made the team, moved out west for co-op and only first came BACK to Ontario for OUA's, having a student budget to work with.

    While you may think you're smart throwing out the scenerio, "out of province or country for most of the season", I can assure you, check with any co-op based school/programs and you will find that it isn't. Co-op/work placement is hard enough with training, don't try to get athletes banned from athletics based on locations too.

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    the devil said 1 day ago

    Millenial Snowflake gets offended easily. I bet the teammate you displaced to run OUA's secretly hates you.

    Quoting: Travelling TF
    "As a former OUA track and field athlete I take offence to the attitude that if you aren't with your coach/team every day you can't count as part of the team. While no where near as good a Sasha, I also have only showed up for championship meets. I was registered In a program where co-op placements were mandatory for graduation, and as a result, over multiple terms would be away from the school and only join up for meets. One year, I made the team, moved out west for co-op and only first came BACK to Ontario for OUA's, having a student budget to work with.

    While you may think you're smart throwing out the scenerio, "out of province or country for most of the season", I can assure you, check with any co-op based school/programs and you will find that it isn't. Co-op/work placement is hard enough with training, don't try to get athletes banned from athletics based on locations too."

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    Anonymous said 1 day ago

    As others mentioned - her being based in Portland has nothing to do with school. She is there to train as a professional athlete with other professional athletes. I completely understand and support that there are academic scenarios that may result in you being absent for large chunks of time. That is part of being a student-athlete. The case being discussed with Gollish is not that, hence why it is an issue for some.

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  • meizner User since:
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    Meizner said 1 day ago

    Ironically, in my 10+ years at U of T/ UTTC, we 'hosted' many Waterloo/ McMaster/UBC athletes who were doing placements/ co-ops etc. in Toronto while racing for their 'home' teams. Nobody seemed to have a problem with it then despite the fact that these athletes not only never trained with their team but trained almost exclusively (even traveled to races) with a rival team!

    One of the great things about the track community is that you have a 'home' wherever you go in Canada. In my (academic) training, I was required to spend time all over the country and found great training (running) groups who took me in without hesitation in Vancouver, Ottawa and Halifax (even Washington DC). To say this is somehow against the 'spirit' of the sport is not only missing the point, but counter to the underlying spirit of the sport.

    Cross-pollination of experience and excellence is a great thing for our sport. If athletes can travel to other centers of excellence, learn from and train with other groups they can bring back that expertise and make our sport richer from it.

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  • nc-blogger User since:
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    NC Blogger said 1 day ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "You will likely see zero other examples of that in USports in any discipline or sport."


    Sarah Dillabaugh won the CIS XC title in 2002 for the University of Ottawa at the age of 28. She came back, after several years out of University to attend FacEd and had one year of eligibility left.

    She won UofO Athlete of the Year and the UofO newspaper slammed her selection. Why? She didn't train with the team, but with her "elite" coach.

    In 1995 she won a bronze medal in the 1500, competing for the University of Waterloo while on a co-op work term, living and training with the UofT girls in TO.

    The argument isn't new, but it's old and just as tiresome today as it was 15-20+ years ago.

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  • meizner User since:
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    Meizner said 1 day ago

    Quoting: NC Blogger
    "Sarah Dillabaugh won the CIS XC title in 2002 for the University of Ottawa at the age of 28. She came back, after several years out of University to attend FacEd and had one year of eligibility left.

    She won UofO Athlete of the Year and the UofO newspaper slammed her selection. Why? She didn't train with the team, but with her "elite" coach.

    In 1995 she won a bronze medal in the 1500, competing for the University of Waterloo while on a co-op work term, living and training with the UofT girls in TO.

    The argument isn't new, but it's old and just as tiresome today as it was 15-20+ years ago."


    Ok maybe people did have a problem with it then and I wasn't even aware! But Sarah's is yet another example of the many diverse, success stories of accommodating academic and athletic needs.

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    Anonymous said 1 day ago

    It will be exciting to see Sasha crack some USports indoor track records this Winter!

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    Anonymous said 1 day ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "As others mentioned - her being based in Portland has nothing to do with school. She is there to train as a professional athlete with other professional athletes. I completely understand and support that there are academic scenarios that may result in you being absent for large chunks of time. That is part of being a student-athlete. The case being discussed with Gollish is not that, hence why it is an issue for some."


    Is she meeting the current USports and U of T rules regarding eligibility (academic load, academic performance, years of competition, etc.)?

    If she is, what rules would you change so you would be satisfied she wouldn't be eligible?

    If she isn't, why has no one (including the teams that would benefit from her being ineligible), not mentioned anything?

    Or, to get the what is likely the crux of the matter, what do you personally have against her such that you want to publicly berate her competing? Has she dissed you in some way? Or is your beef with the U of T program in general?

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    Anonymous said 1 day ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Except track and X are uniquely suited to this situation. SG is enrolled at U of T. She competes for U of T under the current rules. Maybe institute a 12 practice rule like OFSAA (What a joke of a rule LOL)"


    16 practices not 12.

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    PB said 23 hours ago

    These student-athletes have co-op terms that occasionally take them to another city due to the academic requirements of their degree. Sasha trains out of town for her professional athletic needs. Very different.


    Quoting: Meizner
    "Ironically, in my 10+ years at U of T/ UTTC, we 'hosted' many Waterloo/ McMaster/UBC athletes who were doing placements/ co-ops etc. in Toronto while racing for their 'home' teams. Nobody seemed to have a problem with it then despite the fact that these athletes not only never trained with their team but trained almost exclusively (even traveled to races) with a rival team!

    One of the great things about the track community is that you have a 'home' wherever you go in Canada. In my (academic) training, I was required to spend time all over the country and found great training (running) groups who took me in without hesitation in Vancouver, Ottawa and Halifax (even Washington DC). To say this is somehow against the 'spirit' of the sport is not only missing the point, but counter to the underlying spirit of the sport.

    Cross-pollination of experience and excellence is a great thing for our sport. If athletes can travel to other centers of excellence, learn from and train with other groups they can bring back that expertise and make our sport richer from it."

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    Anonymous said 21 hours ago

    Quoting: keepinitreal
    ""


    are you seriously attacking someone for complementing a group of hardworking, lovely and talented girls? Can you not see how wrong that is?

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  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
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    Meizner said 15 hours ago

    Quoting: PB
    ""



    I'm still having trouble identifying what distinguishes Gollish as a 'professional' but not others. Clearly Gollish has at most a gear+bonus contract at most.

    Why then, was JA-Staehli from Queen's who was racing as a NB athlete last year not labelled a 'professional'? Why then, is the whole Guelph program, sponsored by NB which funds trips to 'pro' track races in Europe not also disqualified?

    All of this discussion seems like selective choice of facts and points to someone who has a bias/ bone to pick with Gollish.

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  • rich-uncle-pennybags User since:
    Oct 18th, 2017
    Posts: 5
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    Rich Uncle Pennybags said 14 hours ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "I'm still having trouble identifying what distinguishes Gollish as a 'professional' but not others. Clearly Gollish has at most a gear+bonus contract at most.

    Why then, was JA-Staehli from Queen's who was racing as a NB athlete last year not labelled a 'professional'? Why then, is the whole Guelph program, sponsored by NB which funds trips to 'pro' track races in Europe not also disqualified?

    All of this discussion seems like selective choice of facts and points to someone who has a bias/ bone to pick with Gollish."



    Gollish is old. That's what people are p*ssed about. If she was an NCAA athlete she'd be 10+ years ineligible. How is it fair to line her up against 18 year olds?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Confused said 13 hours ago

    Quoting: Rich Uncle Pennybags
    "Gollish is old. That's what people are p*ssed about. If she was an NCAA athlete she'd be 10+ years ineligible. How is it fair to line her up against 18 year olds?"


    Why is it that nobody seemed to mind her running with 18 year olds after she only finished 3rd at the Ontario championships.

    Had Gollish not won this race I don’t believe this thread would exist.

    I think this has more to do with an anti-Gollish bias that exists with some folks than it does with an anti-mature (pro) runner competing at nationals.

    Congrats to her for running a smart race...Justyn Knight did the same thing to win the NCAA race and yet nobody has a problem with that.

    Gollish won because she was a little better on the day than the rest of the field. The U of T team won for the same reason. Another day might bring a different result.

    The bottom line was that Gollish was eligible to run. No rules were bent or broken to allow her to compete.

    And for those that think the NCAA does it better you might want to look at all the foreign athletes they use (did NAU have 3 in their top 5?)

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    Baller said 13 hours ago

    how many pro's play basketball, football and hockey for UofT?

    I think you are pro when you identify yourself as such.

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  • buddy User since:
    Jun 8th, 2015
    Posts: 914
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    Buddy said 13 hours ago

    what more do you want to know?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZtiToDDZcU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UMwMm-U1TU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSyGQlHtKwg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_H3sAFEa8Q

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    lol said 11 hours ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    " Why then, is the whole Guelph program, sponsored by NB which funds trips to 'pro' track races in Europe not also disqualified?."



    If you think that the whole Guelph team (at any point in time) has been sponsored by NB and that they don't pay out of pocket to go to Europe... lmao. At most, there was 2 sponsored eligible varsity athletes on the squad per gender... and they were sure as heck not salaried (gear + small honorarium).

    The team did however, receive a limited discount on NB shoes which was very generous/helpful. Everything else you saw was paid for by the student-athletes in most cases...

    But back to the point... no real professionals in the CIS. At best on level with a top NCAA program.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 hours ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "I'm still having trouble identifying what distinguishes Gollish as a 'professional' but not others. Clearly Gollish has at most a gear+bonus contract at most.

    Why then, was JA-Staehli from Queen's who was racing as a NB athlete last year not labelled a 'professional'? Why then, is the whole Guelph program, sponsored by NB which funds trips to 'pro' track races in Europe not also disqualified?

    All of this discussion seems like selective choice of facts and points to someone who has a bias/ bone to pick with Gollish."



    Gollish self identifies as a professional runner, it is hardly up to posters here to question that identity.

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  • new-post-last-visitanonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 hour ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Gollish self identifies as a professional runner, it is hardly up to posters here to question that identity."


    And so again, what USport rule(s) do you think are being violated by her participation?

    If you think anyone who self-identifies as a 'professional' should not be eligible, does that self-identification trump relevant facts such as how much compensation they are receiving?

    What about carded athletes (who are receiving more $ than someone like Gollish)? Should they self-identify as 'professional' (at which point you'd invalidate them as well)?

    What if Joe or Sally mid-pack self-identified as 'professional', should they be ineligible?

    It really is not clear what you think is the negative in her participation.

    Are MacDougall and Sumner thinking 'I was thinking of continuing to train seriously, but since since 35 year-old Gollish won USports, I think I'll pack it in'? Or are they (and the rest of the field) looking to up their game and work harder?

    Are there media outlets who would have written an article about the USports championships but decided not to because a 35 year-old Gollish won?

    Can you honestly say there are no future Gollish's in the field? (Someone who is mid-field right now, but might choose to come back to school 10 years from now and with the right supporting environment, be in a position to make a National team?)

    Essentially, what is your personal beef with Gollish?

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