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Anonymous
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Really Am Skuj said 2 weeks ago

30 year old "Masters".

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Srsly? said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Fact. CMAs own website states:
    "By agreement with the WMA and the IAAF, “Masters” are defined as women and men 35 and over. Therefore, Masters championship competition is limited to those ages, in 5-year age groups, up to the age of the oldest competitor. "

    Agreed there is a need to find ways to enourage greater participation in the younger age groups. If you take the time to look at the Senior results, you'll see the drop off in participation starts around 26 or 27. But that doesn't mean the solution is to allow 25-29 year olds to run in the Masters Championship race. The point is the Masters Championship should be for Masters, just as the Junior Championship is for Juniors."


    Then simply adopt the English system. Have everyone who is not a junior run in one massive Senior race. The Master's athletes will get the benefit of getting to line-up against Bruchet, Gillis et al., and can still claim their age group medal at the end.

    This argument is seriously odd to me. We complain there isn't enough interest in our sport, and then simultaneously complain when someone is in the race who we feel shouldn't be because of their age? I get that winning a master's national championship is a big deal for some people - but seriously. Get over it. The meet organizers decided to allow 30+ year old athletes in the race, and as Ben has pointed out, there are people in that age bracket that felt more comfortable racing there than in senior. If you're 40+, having them in the race doesn't affect you, except MAYBE increasing the size and quality of the field.

    Did having these athletes in the race prevent a Master's age athlete from breaking the tape? No. It was a 40 year old. But by all means, prevent these people from racing, shake your figurative canes at them, and then in 10 years we can all chat about how the sport at the Master's level is dead.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Andrew Jones said 2 weeks ago

    Then simply adopt the English system. Have everyone who is not a junior run in one massive Senior race. The Master's athletes will get the benefit of getting to line-up against Bruchet, Gillis et al., and can still claim their age group medal at the end.

    It could be done this way, but looking at the way the UK Masters (http://bmaf.org.uk) do it, they also run a XC championships meet that is separate from the National (Club) Champs. There, Masters athletes represent their home nations (England, Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland, and The Republic of Ireland) and not their club team.

    Personally, as a Masters competitor in Canada, I prefer that my race is part of a "national festival" of XC races, and it's nice to travel once to compete in the Masters national race and also watch the other national races. Putting everyone in one, Senior, race would mean that I don't get to watch the fastest males, in my case, run.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    DanWay said 2 weeks ago

    So I was one of the 30-year olds who lined up and ran the Masters race at Nationals last week. I do not consider myself a Master but the competition rules gave me the option to run either the Masters 8K or the Senior 10K. In retrospect I wish I had run the Senior race even though I would have finished close to last place. The reason I did not was that my running club, the Black Lungs, decided to all run the Masters race because a) it was early in the day so we could get it over with and then watch the Senior races; b) most of us are "real" Masters (35+) and thus legitimately belong in the race and c) we organized an informal intra-club competition between ourselves just to make it more fun. Had it not been for this, there likely would have been 9 fewer runners competing at Nationals. And while myself and a teammate felt legitimately embarrassed for taking away a podium spot from the guy who finished fifth (and was noticeably upset by us being in the race), I also think he ran a better race because we were there. So I'm sorry to those who felt like we should not have been in the Masters race (I/we don't necessarily disagree with you). Regardless, we did have a great time and will certainly be back!

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Still anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    I think masters age should be anyone older than me.
    Everyone else is just a “kid.”
    I’m 65, but in my 50’s I once finished 277th in the Sporting Life 10k. If the trolls care.

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  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
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    Meizner said 2 weeks ago

    Dan, I wouldn't feel badly about running Masters. You supported the race and got a crew out-- good on you. You respected the rules and ran within them.

    I think most of us have a beef with the rules, not the guys who choose to run race A or B if given the choice. My point is that the choice shouldn't be there for you to make.

    That being said, if I am a 50 year old running my arse off (Kevin O), I'd be pretty pissed (at AC/ or CMA, not the actual runners) if I missed a podium because a 30 an 32 year old beat me out. I think Crocker used to be a pretty good runner at some university didn't he? He isn't some random rec. runner so he should probably have run the senior race given the choice.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "Dan, I wouldn't feel badly about running Masters. You supported the race and got a crew out-- good on you. You respected the rules and ran within them.

    I think most of us have a beef with the rules, not the guys who choose to run race A or B if given the choice. My point is that the choice shouldn't be there for you to make.

    That being said, if I am a 50 year old running my arse off (Kevin O), I'd be pretty pissed (at AC/ or CMA, not the actual runners) if I missed a podium because a 30 an 32 year old beat me out. I think Crocker used to be a pretty good runner at some university didn't he? He isn't some random rec. runner so he should probably have run the senior race given the choice."


    P*ssed if a 32 year old did, but not a 35 year old? Is there that much of a difference? In this case, both would be competing in the race within the rules. And I don't think there is that much of a physiological difference between a 32 year-old and a 35 year old. If you're a 50 year old and are surprised/p*ssed that an athlete 15-20 years younger than you beat you, you're either A) incredibly good, or B) completely delusional. And I'd bet in 99% of the cases, it's the latter.

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  • buddy User since:
    Jun 8th, 2015
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    Buddy said 2 weeks ago

    "and was noticeably upset by us being in the race"
    That's funny as hell.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    There are many reasons why someone would choose to run masters as a 30 year old.
    1. Its cheaper (can't prove it, but when registering for Nationals I think it was cheaper for masters compared to seniors when factoring in AO membership fees - I could be wrong)

    2. You would be at the front of the race instead of back of the race - more enjoyable

    3. Its in the morning, and you can get on with your day. Most 30 to 35 year olds start having kids at this time and a whole day away from family/home is a big deal.

    4. And most important: A 30 to 35 year old doesn't think winning masters is a big deal, and winning wouldn't take much away from older masters.

    In the future, because of this discussion on Trackie, I bet you will see even less number of 30-40 year olds competing next year in masters. Crazy to think that people complain about 30 year olds competing when age limit is set to 30 years.

    My personal thought is if a 30 year old isn't competitive in the Senior race, then they should not feel discrimination in competing in the masters race. Masters is broken into age categories every 5 years and there is fierce competition for each of those sub categories. Does anyone really care if a 30 year old beats a 65 year old? I sure don't.

    Ridiculous.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    a few stats from the Masters race results (the table doesn't post very well). The winning times in each age bracket look very similar through 30 to 54 within both sexes. I haven't looked at the previous 2 years yet to see if they are similar. And we senior masters get to watch the race from the back, no matter where you cut off the lower entry age - but we still come to run.

    Age Bracket Females Males F Winning Time M Winning Time
    30 – 34 5 8 32:03 27:33
    35 – 39 8 10 31:17 27:57
    40 – 44 12 24 30:57 27:12
    45 – 49 8 23 32:07 27:41
    50 – 54 14 27 31:27 27:45
    55 – 59 4 17 36:21 29:14
    60 – 64 3 7 39:43 33:01
    65 – 69 2 7 34:49 33:36
    70 – 74 0 4 -- 41:03
    75 – 79 0 2 -- 46:00
    80 – 84 0 0 -- --
    85+ 0 1 -- 1:08:22
    Total 56 130

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  • slamer User since:
    Feb 27th, 2016
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    slamer said 2 weeks ago

    1) Sub-40 year olds should be treated the way foreign runners are in Canadian Championships. Allowed to run, but don't qualify for the awards and most especially the podium.

    2) 6 of the top 10 in the Masters were in their 30s. And all of these guys, had they run in the Senior Men's race would have been somewhere between 90 to 105 (not including them) out of the 112 finishers.

    3) Moreover there was only a little over a 1.5 minute difference between these positions (90 & 105), meaning there would have been plenty of people to run with (someone within a few seconds of you on either side).

    4) It seems to me that by not being in the Senior race, you make a self-fulfilling thing: Not as much competition in the back, so then there's even less competition in the back. I'm sure the runners in the Senior Men's race (in particular, not sure about the women) would have loved to have more runners there.

    5) I'm a bit ambivalent about this issue... on one hand I appreciated the competition being there (read: more runners) and can understand why if someone wanted to jump into competition they wouldn't want to just jump into the senior ranks. But on the other hand, there's a big difference in how training goes between 30s (especially early 30s) and 40s. I personally ran my best in my 30s, so I feel it's would have been weird to have run in the Masters.

    6) If you think that they're not a lot of difference between 32 & 35... then either you're very lucky or are too young to appreciate that there is in fact a big difference. Specifically, injury recovery.

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  • benjaminburr User since:
    Feb 23rd, 2013
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    benjaminburr said 2 weeks ago

    I've been thinking about this more over the past few days, and came on to post something similar to Slamer's point #1. I was sort of under the impression that this was actually the case alraedy, since we're not technically masters, but I guess not. You could certainly include age category awards for 30-34 either way, but I don't really agree with anyone in this age range being on the Canadian Masters Championships podium, since we aren't masters, we're sub-masters. I guess you could include a separate "full race" podium, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

    I'm not as concerned about the 35-39 category. That's a designated masters category, regardless of whether people feel like it's a legitimate one or not. Someone who's 35 should definitely be eligible to stand on the podium.

    As far as breaking the tape goes, I think you have to draw a line there too. The winner of the race should likely get to break the tape. But I think it could be argued that the winner of the race would be the first person 35 or older to cross the line, so you could always set up the tape for that person. To make it easier to figure out who's eligible, under-35 athletes could have the numbers with the green background that were used for junior athletes who were too old to be eligible for the travel squad.

    In any case, I can sympathize with Kevin O'Connor. Any other year, he would be the overall bronze medallist. I would be upset if I were in his situation.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: benjaminburr
    "You could certainly include age category awards for 30-34 either way, but I don't really agree with anyone in this age range being on the Canadian Masters Championships podium, since we aren't masters, we're sub-masters. I guess you could include a separate "full race" podium, but you have to draw the line somewhere.
    "


    Were there any actual 'overall race' Canadian Masters Championships podium medals or was everything age-group only?

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  • benjaminburr User since:
    Feb 23rd, 2013
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    benjaminburr said 2 weeks ago

    I'm not sure. I missed the awards entirely and am not sure what the usual procedure is. Someone else will have to answer that.

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  • oddish User since:
    Feb 21st, 2013
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    Oddish said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Were there any actual 'overall race' Canadian Masters Championships podium medals or was everything age-group only?"


    There are no overall awards for the Masters competition. Individual age groups medals in 5 year divisions, first place team plaques in 10 year divisions and the GAAT trophy, that is all. I was not present for the Masters awards and don't know if they called up the top three individuals overall for recognition but I don 't thin k they did. The only thing at stake for each athlete is individual place within their age group and team place (which is based on total time, not points).

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    cooperaa said 1 week ago

    Wow, a lot of butthurt old farts... Just wait till Coolsaet and Gillis make the transition! Then you'll really have to kiss your masters podium spots goodbye.

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    Andrew Jones said 1 week ago

    The only thing at stake for each athlete is individual place within their age group and team place (which is based on total time, not points).

    That's right, Clive, and everything else is really just each athlete's individual outlook on how they place overall (really a changing landscape from year to year, though). Even those that dream of crossing the tape first will, as the comment below refers to, sometimes have to readjust their goals, depending on who turns up to run.


    Wow, a lot of butthurt old farts... Just wait till Coolsaet and Gillis make the transition! Then you'll really have to kiss your masters podium spots goodbye.


    This is hardcore! Thanks Aaron, from time to time we all need some reality checks.

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  • oddish User since:
    Feb 21st, 2013
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    Oddish said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Andrew Jones
    "The only thing at stake for each athlete is individual place within their age group and team place (which is based on total time, not points).

    That's right, Clive, and everything else is really just each athlete's individual outlook on how they place overall (really a changing landscape from year to year, though). Even those that dream of crossing the tape first will, as the comment below refers to, sometimes have to readjust their goals, depending on who turns up to run.


    Wow, a lot of butthurt old farts... Just wait till Coolsaet and Gillis make the transition! Then you'll really have to kiss your masters podium spots goodbye.


    This is hardcore! Thanks Aaron, from time to time we all need some reality checks."


    Already happened:
    http://www.ontariomasters.ca/omwp/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Results-2010-Ind.pdf

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  • new-post-last-visitanonymous Anonymous
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    Really Am Skuj said 1 week ago

    Quoting: cooperaa
    "Wow, a lot of butthurt old farts... Just wait till Coolsaet and Gillis make the transition! Then you'll really have to kiss your masters podium spots goodbye."


    I can't wait to see those guys do Masters.

    Of course, under the current set-up, they could have already been doing the "Masters" race for a few years.

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