• Login
  • |
  • Contact

    LIVE SUPPORT

    SEND US A MESSAGE

    ContactCode

    OTHER

    Email:
    info@trackie.com

    Voicemail:
    1.877.456.5544

Discussion Forum >>

TrackieReg - Free Online Registration for pretty much anything!
Reply to topic Go to last post
Avatar
Anonymous
Posts: 48207
thumbs_up 4
Report  ORIGINAL

Really Am Skuj said 4 months ago

Are Cooldowns Important/Over-rated?

I've struggled with this for many years.

Warmups are of paramount importance, of course. How can you perform well without a good warmup?

But I often wonder if a "formal" cooldown actually matters. Perhaps there is a definitive scientific article out there that absolutely puts an end to any discussion about what a cooldown should be, and why it is so important. But I haven't found that article yet.

I imagine that most of us runners would not be in a situation where we are stagnant for the few hours that follows a hard session or a race. There will almost certainly be some walking about. I think that is the important thing: some movement after the hard running.

But I'm not convinced, from the scientific articles available, that informally walking about, or jumping into the river/ocean/pool, is much worse than doing a "formal" cooldown.

And what must a "formal" cooldown be anyway? A 15min jog? A 5min jog? Why?

Convince me that cooldowns are important, Trackie. What must a cooldown be? Show me the errors in my thinking. Show me the scientific data.

Thanks.

Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #1 

    Anonymous said 4 months ago

    Not to get off topic; but with most of the warm up 's I've seen I'd call them over rated/unnecessary. From what I've seen, you don't need more than 20 minutes to warm up (jog, drills, etc)

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #2 

    Anonymous said 4 months ago

    You are so lucky to have been instructed in either warm ups or cool downs. My coach did neither. Still did well in XC races. Lucky coach ?
    I doubt it.

    Quote comment
  • oldster User since:
    Sep 25th, 2013
    Posts: 2331
    thumbs_up 18
    Report    REPLY #3 

    Oldster said 4 months ago

    It depends on what you think you're supposed to be getting from a cool-down. If you think it might improve recovery for your next training session, you're probably wrong (I'm not sure there is any more evidence for the efficacy of the cool-down in this regard than there is for another supposed aids to recovery, such as rolling or massage). But, if you see the 15-25mins of jogging you do following a hard session as another kind of training, you might be on the right track.

    On the same principle that you get a good training stimulus "bang" for your injury risk "buck" by training "low" (e.g. without calories, the morning after a long session) or in conditions that produce a little hypoxia (altitude or extreme heat), the "cool down" might give you some of the same general aerobic conditioning stimulus (capillorization, mitochondrial growth) that you get from your daily easy runs, but with a lower risk to your muscloskeletal structures-- i.e. because you won't need to run as fast in order to get it. In other words, the local muscle fatigue and depletion you've induced from your hard session might create a small window within which you can do some lower risk/higher reward easy volume. It's important to realize that this window will be small, however. Anyone who's ever pushed a "cool-down" beyond the 30min mark will have noted how quickly it can start feeling like a second workout (which you might want if training for a marathon, but rarely at any other time).

    This post was edited by Oldster 4 months ago . 
    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #4 

    Andrew Jones said 4 months ago

    I recall some studies on the efficacy of after-hard-effort movement and bloodflow. None that I recall were negative in their findings, but as to the idea of reducing DOMS, etc. I also recall the findings to be underwhelming in that regard.

    The recent trend toward after-race workouts (see the AlSal bunch) is another interesting development, but I would think would only apply in those situations where a runner was moving down to run an underdistance race and was really training through to a race at the specialty distance.

    Steve will remember that Paul McCloy was know for long after-race cooldowns (8ish miles?) and it would be interesting to hear from a runner like him if, in the long term, those cooldowns were a boon or a bane to the overall program (IE, was there an occasion that a long cooldown may have contributed to a program-arresting injury?)

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #5 

    Anonymous said 4 months ago

    I don't really see what it could do...i guess that one of the reason would be to improve bloodflow to muscle for recovery BUT if you think about it thats kinda dumb since a couple of minutes before you were traning or having a race...we really need more research on the subject!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #6 

    Really Am Skuj said 4 months ago

    One thing that got me thinking about this was watching a Kipchoge workout video. After multiple 1k and 2k runs at 2:50km pace, he and his group jog about at a pace that they could walk. It was a very slow shuffle. 10min Mile pace, probably. Why not walk?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 4
    Report    REPLY #7 

    Anonymous said 4 months ago

    There's some benefit also in "social recovery" so if you have a group, going for a little jog together and informally debriefing the workout (or talking about something completely unrelated) is beneficial. Oldster's explanation seems to be the best in terms of any physiological benefit. It's just adding to your time on your feet, and maybe at a time when you can get a little more out of less.

    Quote comment
  • oldster User since:
    Sep 25th, 2013
    Posts: 2331
    thumbs_up 4
    Report    REPLY #8 

    Oldster said 4 months ago

    Quoting: Andrew Jones
    "I recall some studies on the efficacy of after-hard-effort movement and bloodflow. None that I recall were negative in their findings, but as to the idea of reducing DOMS, etc. I also recall the findings to be underwhelming in that regard.

    The recent trend toward after-race workouts (see the AlSal bunch) is another interesting development, but I would think would only apply in those situations where a runner was moving down to run an underdistance race and was really training through to a race at the specialty distance.

    Steve will remember that Paul McCloy was know for long after-race cooldowns (8ish miles?) and it would be interesting to hear from a runner like him if, in the long term, those cooldowns were a boon or a bane to the overall program (IE, was there an occasion that a long cooldown may have contributed to a program-arresting injury?)"


    I think we have to take anything the NOP has pioneered with grain of salt. Along with the suspicions about grey-area doping, there's the fact that they are full time athletes of a pretty extreme kind (tons of resources focus on keeping them moving forward). And I think the post-race workouts are really just a matter of turning race into an element of a workout that happens to take place after rather than before the race.

    Paul's is another example no one would want to generalize much from! His training was often patterned by things like the weather, or when he could get off the rock for some higher quality training during the winter. He would definitely strike when the iron was hot, even if this meant several fairly hard sessions in close proximity. He also did his easy days very fast. The times I ran with him it was not unusual at all to hit 3:30s (or 5:40 miles, as it would have been back then). In the end, his brilliant career was a fairly short one. He ran decently well into his early 30s, but did not run a personal best at any distance after age 25, and never got a chance to hit a quality HM, let alone try his hand at a full. It could be that his approach to training had nothing to do with this, but I've never known anyone who trained quite like he did.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #9 

    Anonymous said 4 months ago

    10 minutes at a slow pace is fine. 20 minute easy warm up is more than enough followed by some quick stride outs is plenty. I am assuming this is for middle distance on a warm day. XC in the cold and you might want to increase that wArm up.

    This is running nOt friggin rocket science. Too many people think there is one definitive right and wrong way to do everything. Go with what works for you.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #10 

    Really am Skuj said 4 months ago

    I just want to add that those who advocate a shortish/20min total warmup may feel differently when they are 30....40.....50.....etc.

    These days my warmups represent my "base" training. :)

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #11 

    Anonymous said 4 months ago

    Quoting: Really am Skuj
    "I just want to add that those who advocate a shortish/20min total warmup may feel differently when they are 30....40.....50.....etc.

    These days my warmups represent my "base" training. :)"


    I don't know about you Skuj, but THESE days 20 minutes is about it for me - PERIOD.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #12 

    Older than oldster said 4 months ago

    At 60 I need 20 minutes on the treadmill to get ready for my easy training run!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #13 

    Really Am Skuj said 4 months ago

    LOL.

    At 56 I need to warmup for my warmup. I need a good walk first.

    (I'm even older than Oldster also. Of course, he still runs like he is in his 30s.)

    This post was edited by a Moderator [Issues] 4 months ago . 
    Quote comment
  • historyrunner User since:
    Aug 23rd, 2017
    Posts: 8
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #14 

    historyrunner said 4 months ago

    At 54, ideally I need 10 minutes on the elliptical before 20 min running warm-up pre-race (even workouts if I had that kind of time)

    Quote comment
  • roman-the-runner User since:
    Aug 6th, 2018
    Posts: 14
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #15 

    roman_the_runner said 4 months ago

    Some coaches recommend doing strides after a long run to rid off the tension, both physically and mentaly. Not sure if that can be considered a cooldown

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48207
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #16 

    Really Am Skuj said 4 months ago

    Yeah, that reminds me - I've seen many people end runs with strides, often rather brisk strides, and then running is done. Ie No jogging after strides.

    So....strides could be a great way to cooldown, and/or jogging a cooldown is over-rated.

    Quote comment
  • new-post-last-visitbuddy User since:
    Jun 8th, 2015
    Posts: 1248
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #17 

    Buddy said 3 months ago

    Try racing a half or ATB then jumping in the car for a 1 or 2 hour ride home with no cooldown.
    At age 50 plus ofcourse :)

    When you pull into the driveway you're texting your spouse to assist you out the the car.

    Quote comment
Anonymous

says…    

Quote Underline Italics Bold
Submit Preview

By posting on our forum you are agreeing to the following guidelines.

To help prevent spammers please
enter the two words below.


image-display1

 

Benefits of creating an account!

  • No need to reveal your real name.
  • Quicker to post (no need to enter the "two words" above each time).
  • Gives you the ability to edit your own comments and subscribe to topics.
  • It's free & quick to create an account!
Submit & Create Account

 

To help prevent spammers please
enter the two words below.


image-display1

To help prevent spammers please
enter the two words below.


image-display1