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  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48120
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #76 

    Anonymous said 4 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "So because Seccafien/O'Connell placed 5th / 12th 4 years ago they won't finish higher in Denmark this march than Hawthorne/Coates?"


    You are misreading the post. The available data shows Hawthorne and Coates placing higher at a similar level of XC championship competition in recent years.

    You may prefer to focus on other data, over a different distance and on a different surface, but that would be a separate point in favour of athletes with a different focus and specialty.

    Both points can be used to estimate potential world xc placing.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48120
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    Report    REPLY #77 

    Anonymous said 4 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "You're creating a strawman argument."


    That's not what a strawman is.

    The XC team selection allows for athletes to be selected on the basis of their performance over a different distance on a different surface.

    A comparison was made to selecting steeplechase and marathon runners to a national team based on performances over a different distance on a different surface.

    Their post was oversimplified, but it is sound.

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  • oldster User since:
    Sep 25th, 2013
    Posts: 2327
    thumbs_up 13
    Report    REPLY #78 

    Oldster said 4 days ago

    Quoting: Andrew Jones
    "Further to the Joel B. topic, it's interesting that some observers call the SC "XC on the track". Some pretty good historical examples of steeplers succeeding on the country: Roelants, Malinowski, Mutwol and assorted other Kenyan steeplers.

    How about Genevieve Lalonde the other day? Pretty dominating performance at Ft. Henry."


    Yeah, don't think I was alone in thinking Gen would be a serious contender in this one, despite it being 10k. She had matured a lot as an athlete (became a great steepler and notched a couple of very strong road results) since the last time she ran XC-- and she showed real XC ability when on her game back in university (her run on the hill looked like a carbon copy of her winning CIS performance in QC back in '11-- ample power and control on the soft surface). Like her old coach, the aforementioned Joel Bourgeois, she is a pure steepler with exactly the kind of XC ability you would expect from one. Really glad she ran the trial instead of relying on selection.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48120
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    Report    REPLY #79 

    Anonymous said 4 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "That's not what a strawman is.

    The XC team selection allows for athletes to be selected on the basis of their performance over a different distance on a different surface.

    A comparison was made to selecting steeplechase and marathon runners to a national team based on performances over a different distance on a different surface.

    Their post was oversimplified, but it is sound."


    A strawman argument is one that is made purposely easy to knock down (like a strawman). In asking the question "would you accept selecting steeple runners by other track times" the poster created an argument that is purposely very weak. The reality is that it's not a good comparison to the XC selection argument because steeple and marathon are much more different from the other track events than XC would be to 5k and 10k.

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  • new-post-last-visitanonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48120
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    Report    REPLY #80 

    Anonymous said 4 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "No it did not. The post showed that arguably the greatest middle distance runner in Canadian history was excellent over 4k XC. And it also showed that a very good Steeplechaser performed better over 4k xc than expected based on flat track PBs of similar distances.
    To have a list of Sully level exemptions, you'd need more difficult standards than what AC used this fall."


    I love Sully too, but you are seeing his career with rose-coloured glasses. The criteria for exemption was top 32 in the world level. Sully was 9th once and was 5th at the Olympics once, but the rest of the time he was consistently top 30. So the expemption levels are decidedly Sully-esque.

    Here's a link if you want to check: https://www.iaaf.org/records/all-time-toplists/middlelong/1500-metres/outdoor/men/senior?regionType=world&page=1&bestResultsOnly=true&firstDay=2000-12-31&lastDay=2001-12-05

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