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2017 U Sports Cross Country Fantasy Team Contest
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Anonymous
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Eli Fant said 6 days ago

Elephant in the room

Did the Gaels choke?

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  • mattnorminton User since:
    Jan 13th, 2013
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    mattnorminton said 6 days ago

    I don't think so, I think they just got beat by the better team on the day. The UofT ladies have a strong team with some experienced runners on it. Queens was still 2nd on the day as an aside.

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  • groaker User since:
    May 27th, 2014
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    Groaker said 6 days ago

    Not even close to the biggest surprise or choke of Usports. You've got the dynasty Guelph womans program dropping off from putting most of their roster in AC spots not too long ago to going down in flames. McMaster has 4th place on lock down but really should have been ahead of Laval given how many guys they were missing, and how well Mac ran at OUs, maybe peaked early! And then there's Western: with all the Sheffar discussion on here the past few years, and their rookie taking the lead at either the 6k or 8k mark yesterday, the team outcome was...yikes! But yeah, transfer Stephenson was off and the U of T coaches peaked their women better than the Queens coaches, certainly a small upset.

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    Eli Fant said 6 days ago

    Did we get played like a fiddle by the Blues (SG) in the lead up?
    and did SG finish those kids like a cheesecake?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 6 days ago

    Quoting: Groaker
    "Not even close to the biggest surprise or choke of Usports. You've got the dynasty Guelph womans program dropping off from putting most of their roster in AC spots not too long ago to going down in flames. McMaster has 4th place on lock down but really should have been ahead of Laval given how many guys they were missing, and how well Mac ran at OUs, maybe peaked early! And then there's Western: with all the Sheffar discussion on here the past few years, and their rookie taking the lead at either the 6k or 8k mark yesterday, the team outcome was...yikes! But yeah, transfer Stephenson was off and the U of T coaches peaked their women better than the Queens coaches, certainly a small upset."


    Reading this made me lose IQ points

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  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
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    Meizner said 6 days ago

    Quoting: Eli Fant
    "Did the Gaels choke?"


    As I said post-OUs everything went just about perfectly for Queen's at OUs, while TO has pretty 'regular' days. At CIs all 5 To girls hit a really good one while only 2/5 Queen's girls did. Such is racing. with two excellent, well coached teams going H2H. Race again in 2 weeks and you'd have to toss a coin re: the winner.

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    Anonymous said 6 days ago

    Well said Groaker and Meizner, there were far bigger disappointments from teams like Western who scored 97 points last year, returned 4/7 and added good rookies, and then scored 317 this year! WOW!!!

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    I'm guessing Amy Stephenson would like that run over again. Unfortunately she did not have nearly the race she'd had at OU's. It happens, but if she had been up with Stafford (beat her pretty solidly in Windsor) it would have made all the difference and the race would have been extremely tight.

    As Matt said though, that's racing.

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Guelph wasn't too far back and they have very good recruits. Their team is relatively young and the program is superior. Look for them to do very well indoors and next X season.

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "I'm guessing Amy Stephenson would like that run over again. Unfortunately she did not have nearly the race she'd had at OU's. It happens, but if she had been up with Stafford (beat her pretty solidly in Windsor) it would have made all the difference and the race would have been extremely tight.

    As Matt said though, that's racing."


    Not a fair comment, it's never a result of one person. It's collective. Queens girls did really well. Toronto did better.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Well said Groaker and Meizner, there were far bigger disappointments from teams like Western who scored 97 points last year, returned 4/7 and added good rookies, and then scored 317 this year! WOW!!!"

    What did (or didn't) Carson do that the other Western boys didn't. Kid was MOVING Sunday

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  • myth User since:
    Jan 23rd, 2014
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    Myth said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Guelph wasn't too far back and they have very good recruits. Their team is relatively young and the program is superior. Look for them to do very well indoors and next X season."


    This has been the case for most of the last decade though. Excellent recruits, many of whom never pan out. Guelph has struggled to get women developing over 5 years in the same manner as the men, where they have done an outstanding job. I can only really think of 2 women that went through the program and continued post collegiate running within the SR system - Aubry and Lalonde (in comparison to a much longer list of examples on the mens side).

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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Toronto knew that only 1 race really mattered all year
    #midDnomore

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "I'm guessing Amy Stephenson would like that run over again. Unfortunately she did not have nearly the race she'd had at OU's. It happens, but if she had been up with Stafford (beat her pretty solidly in Windsor) it would have made all the difference and the race would have been extremely tight.

    As Matt said though, that's racing."


    think it's safe to say Stafford would of had her. Stafford had a good day at Windsor, but I don't think it was what she was capable of. Clearly had a lot more in the tank. Seems like the U of T girls were figuring out 8k at OUs and then crushed it at CIS! Congrats to this talented and tough team. Proved the naysayers wrong and made history!

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  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
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    Meizner said 5 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Guelph wasn't too far back and they have very good recruits. Their team is relatively young and the program is superior. Look for them to do very well indoors and next X season."


    If they have great recruits and a 'superior' program then why were they 4th? ;)

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 5 days ago

    Check back in after indoor track and see how Guelph does. Men won X this season. Women not too far back after winning 12 national titles in a row. That's not luck. They sat some very good runners out to give them a break from a long summer of fine track results. They aren't finished.

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  • oldster User since:
    Sep 25th, 2013
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    Oldster said 5 days ago

    Toronto is a great team, and did exactly what we expected they would in terms of points (low 60s at OUAs is almost always going to be in the 70s at Nats). With 37 at OUAs, we had a very reasonable expectation of scoring in the 50s or 60s at Nats. But, the pressure that other teams, the course, and the conditions bring on the day is simply part of the process, and what make competing so fascinating (and frustrating). In the end, what goes around comes around. We had a better than expected day last year and a worse than expected day this year, with both races ending with a runner-up finish. We're looking forward to a rematch next year (with Guelph back on its feet and a ascendant team from Laval also in the mix)! This is an emerging golden era of quality and depth in Canadian women's collegiate running and we could not be more excited to be part of it.

    P.S. It should be clear that a women's distance of at least 8k is simply the right thing to do and is not a disadvantage to teams that focus on mid-d track during the winter (or an advantage to teams like ours). What's been true for men's programs for decades (that training for and racing long distance in the fall is ideal for everyone, while also and giving true long distance athletes a chance to develop) is also true for women's programs. If a guy like Cory Bellemore can win OUAs XC anyone, male or female, can succeed at the longer distances, if they are properly prepared. And who can say that that women's 8k was not more exciting than the old 6k? The added distance created a whole other dimension-- that of tactical acumen, real tenacity, and mid-race resilience.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 4 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "think it's safe to say Stafford would of had her. Stafford had a good day at Windsor, but I don't think it was what she was capable of. Clearly had a lot more in the tank. Seems like the U of T girls were figuring out 8k at OUs and then crushed it at CIS! Congrats to this talented and tough team. Proved the naysayers wrong and made history!"


    Stephenson would not have had to beat Stafford for Queen's to have won. Top 12 would have done it. And 12th would still have been a weak performance for an OUA 4th placer. The gap at OUAs was wide enough (25 points and 30 secs per scorer) that it would only have taken an average day for Queen's to have won. They had a very poor day. Scored 23 points more than last year with a much stronger team.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 4 days ago

    Quoting: Myth
    "This has been the case for most of the last decade though. Excellent recruits, many of whom never pan out. Guelph has struggled to get women developing over 5 years in the same manner as the men, where they have done an outstanding job. I can only really think of 2 women that went through the program and continued post collegiate running within the SR system - Aubry and Lalonde (in comparison to a much longer list of examples on the mens side)."


    Maybe their post-collegiate women are suffering from PDST.

    You're welcome.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Trucksarefastest said 4 days ago

    Read the thread title and was hoping it would finally roast Gollish for celebrating a University win at the spry age of 35...

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  • new-post-last-visitanonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 4 days ago

    Quoting: Oldster
    "Toronto is a great team, and did exactly what we expected they would in terms of points (low 60s at OUAs is almost always going to be in the 70s at Nats). With 37 at OUAs, we had a very reasonable expectation of scoring in the 50s or 60s at Nats. But, the pressure that other teams, the course, and the conditions bring on the day is simply part of the process, and what make competing so fascinating (and frustrating). In the end, what goes around comes around. We had a better than expected day last year and a worse than expected day this year, with both races ending with a runner-up finish. We're looking forward to a rematch next year (with Guelph back on its feet and a ascendant team from Laval also in the mix)! This is an emerging golden era of quality and depth in Canadian women's collegiate running and we could not be more excited to be part of it.

    P.S. It should be clear that a women's distance of at least 8k is simply the right thing to do and is not a disadvantage to teams that focus on mid-d track during the winter (or an advantage to teams like ours). What's been true for men's programs for decades (that training for and racing long distance in the fall is ideal for everyone, while also and giving true long distance athletes a chance to develop) is also true for women's programs. If a guy like Cory Bellemore can win OUAs XC anyone, male or female, can succeed at the longer distances, if they are properly prepared. And who can say that that women's 8k was not more exciting than the old 6k? The added distance created a whole other dimension-- that of tactical acumen, real tenacity, and mid-race resilience."


    Regarding distance. The movement at hand is equality. We still are not equal. What is your suggestion for this? The Men come down to 8km? Women move up to 10km? They meet in the middle at 9km? How and when does this roll out?

    This post was edited by a Moderator [Issues] 4 days ago . 
    Message from Moderator:
    That has already started to roll out, hence the university women running 8km this year and next year (the senior women already ran 10km last year). A committee will decide whether to equalize at 8km or 10km for university. See, for example, this: https://runningmagazine.ca/ouas-cross-country-gender-equality-race-distances/
    If you have issues/questions please contact moderator@trackie.com.
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