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Anonymous
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NCAAwatcher said 1 month ago

Prouse's Open Letter

If you haven't seen or read this yet, please do.

https://www.charlotteprouse.com/single-post/2018/03/12/Dear-NCAA-Coaches

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 month ago

    Charlotte is an incredible athlete but more importantly an incredibly intelligent and insightful young women! All female and male students thinking about attending an Amercan or Canadian university should read her posts and visit her blog. Remember to stay true to yourself and never feel that you can't call on those close to you for support. Well written Charlotte!

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    Anonymous said 1 month ago

    One more post of a man that is filled with ignorance and he justifies that ignorance by so called results. The basis of everyone's anger against this troll is that he is not able to really see the athletes that he and others influence. The ignorance that you possess has no place in coaching! Athletes, students, people deserve to be given every opportunity to succeed and your job as a coach is to help them with this but with the underlying understanding that you develop the person in a positive manner at all costs! No Olympic medal replaces the happiness of a well supported and developed athlete. If you don't or can't see that than please quit coaching! You are damaging the youth that you work with in such a way that it cannot be undone! Charlotte and all other athletes that you speak negatively about would also agree! Please do not respond but please change! Think about who you affect with your attitude and negativity!

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    GoCharlotte said 1 month ago

    Quoting: Troll Takahashi
    "...Therefore you are not just an athlete at that school but an employee, an employee of a results oriented structure that is the NCAA. When an athlete does not perform there is no union to protect them. They can simply be terminated at any given time. You don't perform to the highest of what your capabilities are, that coach could potentially lose their job the very next year...."


    Tell me how perpetuating a culture of eating disorders and overtraining creates strong distance women that deliver results for their coaches (which, as you say, is the whole purpose they are paid to be there).

    Rather, it breaks them, and most of them leave the sport for good. That sounds like a poor investment to me.

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  • bestcoach User since:
    Oct 20th, 2014
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    BestCoach said 1 month ago

    Paul you should switch to coaching men's football, soccer or MMA if you love coaching that much. You really would be better off coaching adults only. (if you must coach)

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  • cummings User since:
    Apr 1st, 2006
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    Cummings said 1 month ago

    Quoting: NCAAwatcher
    "If you haven't seen or read this yet, please do.

    https://www.charlotteprouse.com/single-post/2018/03/12/Dear-NCAA-Coaches"


    I really thought this was a very courageous piece to write. Thank you for posting. These types of articles are great reflection for coaches on our personal practices. It's inspired me to check in with a few of my girls tomorrow that I've been meaning to chat with, not for anything specific but just to see how they are doing; they do not care what you know unless they know that you care. That is true of a coach-athlete relationship at any level of sport.

    A coaching program does not need to be harsh to get results; if I ran a militaristic program I wouldn't have a program. A program can be demanding and challenging while still being nurturing. Of which, the most successful programs year after year manage to do that, at any level. Resiliency is an issue today in our youth but developing a program where athletes are treated as property doesn't breed long-term success. And in the end, for all of the NCAA's imperfections, their mandate is to develop STUDENT-athletes, not just athletes; which means taking a holistic perspective on developing someone on scholarship. At least if everyone played by the rules of the NCAA's constitution (clearly this doesn't always happen, particularly in the money making sports).

    In regards to the Darwinian comment. There is a difference between Darwinian Evolution and Social Darwinism. We've seen many examples of the malpractice of applying Darwinian realities of generational change to human societies throughout the modern era. Darwin's Theory of Evolution Through Natural Selection applies to having traits that increase an individual's genetic "fitness". Meaning the capability to survive and reproduce. Which leads to the so called "Survival of the Fittest." It has to do with the current genetic variation that is most favorable for the current environmental circumstances. And the reality of Natural Selection is that organisms mutate and evolve all sorts of novel solutions to complex problems to survive and reproduce; individuals of the same species and different species alike develop ingenious ways to survive and thrive. For example, some lions fight to control a pride; but there is a minority of lions that have a genetic predisposition to be a "sneaker" (ie- rather than fighting for a pride of lionesses, they travel in small groups with other males and mate with females of a dominant male lion while he is unaware). They still reproduce and don't have the pressure of being the King of the Savanna; they end up living longer and producing more offspring generally as a result.

    I would also point out this was one of Darwin's major dilemmas with publishing "Origin of Species"; as he had a keen awareness of human society's nastiness coupled with its penchant for ignorance. He knew how his theories were going to be misinterpreted.

    My point being, "Survival of the Fittest" isn't the harsh reality we all necessarily think it is; it's a lot more complex than just compete or perish. Biodiversity's ingenuity attempts to resource partition so all out battles can be avoided if possible.

    "Survival of the Fittest" is also a complex interaction between Natural and Sexual Selection, and thus is a poor analogy to apply to an artificial construct like a collegiate cross country team. Sexual Selection involves traits like ornamentation (see tiger stripes, elephant seal heads, moose antlers, lion's mane, songbirds), and behavioral adaptations (nest building, rutting etc) that are actually survival costs; and most often a survival cost to the male portion of the species because it is most common for males to compete for control of females in animal species. Thus, having expensive ornaments like antlers or colourful plumage actually doesn't make you more physically fit, it makes you more prone to predation (male peacocks are dinner at twice the rate of female pea hens for example). It's a constant tug of war between these two types of selection (attractiveness and survival), and ultimately ensuring genes are passed on to the next generation is more important than longevity.

    Social Darwinism is a gross misinterpretation of the human species applying the concepts of Darwinian Evolution to human societies, albeit in an extremely crude and poorly understood fashion (see Nazi Germany if you need an example). In fact, evolution has played a brilliant trick on humanity; as our advantage over other hominids and other organisms has been our knack for endurance coupled with our ability to develop extremely complex and detailed social relationships. Our ability for socialization (language and structurally based) has allowed us to organize well enough to falsely claim a temporary dominion over our competitors.

    Humans really are social animals, and in order for us to perform to the best of our abilities we need to have positive social bonds and relationships, thus turning something like an NCAA Div 1 program into an athlete meat grinder without respect for the psychological well being of any athlete you recruit is a recipe for long term failure.

    As stated in a previous post, yep, absolutely, schools are making an investment in the athlete when they choose to give scholarship money away. However, to get the best return on investment the school needs to provide more than just finances; it needs to provide an environment where that athlete can thrive. If we are making the business analogy (which again I don't necessarily think is the best analogy, as schools aren't businesses), the most profitable corporations of the 21st Century are the corporations that invest enormous amounts of effort into providing extensive human resource supports. People want job security, health care plans, leisure time, and work-life balance; all of these things make their work force more productive, even though it is an initial up front expense. Silicon Valley giants have figured this out, I would be hard pressed to think that a student-athlete wouldn't want the same from a potential post-secondary institution. The recipe for human success is the same across all parts of the world, the only differences are the levels of desperation and disparity.

    Whether you are from the Rift Valley, Orange County, the Lower Mainland, the Bow Valley, the Ottawa Valley, or from the GTA; aspiring athletes all need the same thing, they need to be taken care of and looked after. I can think of many examples of athletes who are plucked from overseas (or heck, took a bus from Canada) and brought to the NCAA with promises of a future; and in the end they were treated as a commodity (this is not isolated to running). And once their time is done they have been given neither the support nor structure to function in the world they were promised; and it doesn't end well for them (some of these examples I know personally). It's important not to dehumanize the coach absolutely, but it's of vital importance for a coach not to treat an athlete as a means to an end. We are all human in the end after all and we need to know that those we look at for guidance care about us.

    This post was edited by Cummings 1 month ago . 
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    Embarrassing said 1 month ago

    Quoting: Troll Takahashi
    ""A man that is filled with ignorance" coming from an anonymous who has no personal relationship to me what so ever. LOL.
    Dude don't start with the BS about the athletes I influence. This forum is not about me.
    Again giving me advice. Stay on topic bud, otherwise don't post.
    You haven't come to practice, you have no personal relationship to anyone I coach or associate myself with, so it's time for you to stfu.
    I don't give a shit who I affect. As a competitive athlete the reality is, survival of the fittest (psychologically and physically). Otherwise go play in a beer league, house league, or intramural for fun. Go join a running club for fun. Don't be part of a structure that is designed to WIN Championships and that's the only thing that matters. The NCAA attracts the best in every sport, all the TOP universities have 1 big long goal: to win an NCAA Championship

    Go look at basketball for instance. Basically the same 5 Top schools usually making the Sweet 16 in the Men's Tournmanet almost every year and 1 of them usually winning the whole thing: Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina, Villanova

    Mens XC Running: Oregon, Colorado, Syracuse, Northern Arizona, Oklahoma State, Wisconsin, Iona, Stanford, Arkansas

    As a student you have a choice, as a human being you have a choice. What you don't have, is the ability to change someone's perspectives because you think you can. You think you can manipulate an individual to think differently because you say so. LOL. This is why there is conflict in the World.

    If you don't like something as an athlete you have 3 choices:

    1. Leave and find another coach
    2. Quit the sport
    3. Suck it up

    And that's that."



    You should be banned from commenting on anything. All you do is leave everyone with a headache and an eye roll. Lol.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 month ago

    Quoting: Troll Takahashi
    "If an athlete has an eating disorder that's something they should be seeing doctors and psychologists about. At the end of the day I blame the parenting. If you care about your kid(s) and see your child has an eating disorder, it's time to get them the help they need, before they get hurt while what's assumed as (overtraining). Lol

    There is no such thing as Burn out or Overtraining.
    Go look at the Top Professional Triathletes in the World.
    They put in hundreds of miles a day in the water, on the bike and in running.
    I don't see many of the top pro's dying, because they get in the right amount of calories. Proper nutrition keeps our species strong. Poor nutrition and you'll become a twig and break down.
    Female Triathlete Daniela Ryf puts in way more miles than any NCAA or Usports track runner or XC runner and I don't see her with an eating disorder, or overtrained, or burnt out. She is simply the best in the World, because she has the right physiological tools, and psychological tools.

    If you have a problem, don't compete. Get healthy first, because in reality your Health is what matters most. Then your Happiness."



    Troll actually has a point

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    Anonymous said 1 month ago

    The ignorance about eating disorders. Troll you're a wreck

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    Anonymous said 1 month ago

    Something tells me this Troll Takahashi never ran D1. He has no idea. :-)

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    Really Am Skuj said 1 month ago

    Mods,

    If ever there was ONE thread that finally convinced you that TT has to go, isn't it this thread?

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    Really Am Skuj said 1 month ago

    Quoting: Troll Takahashi
    "[QUOTE]Quoting: Cummings

    This is a perfect masterpiece. 10/10. Bravo. The best thing I've read on Trackie for a while.
    I need to hang out with this Cummings. Well educated and very informative it seems and highly experienced. Unlike Boyd, who emails me uninvitedly, you sir can email me and we can have discussions, that won't turn into rambling nonsense, unless you offend me of course."


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mGGwDmCTha8

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  • bestcoach User since:
    Oct 20th, 2014
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    BestCoach said 1 month ago

    It's hard to tell what your child is eating when they are 4,000km from home.

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    Anonymous said 1 month ago

    Quoting: Troll Takahashi
    "There is no such thing as Burn out or Overtraining. "


    What the......

    I would highly recommend you taking a course on coaching, or talking to anyone with a minimum level of coaching intelligence before coaching anyone, ever again.

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    Andrew Jones said 1 month ago

    ...thus turning something like an NCAA Div 1 program into an athlete meat grinder without respect for the psychological well being of any athlete you recruit is a recipe for long term failure.

    I agree with this statement, and the shame of it is that athletes subjected to this type of program could have their athletics life ruined, with their heads messed up to the point that they end up detesting something they are great at and have loved.

    Moreover, the dire mental health issues (see eating disorders) that are sometimes attendant in this kind of "only love you when you're fast" environment could ruin (and even end) an athlete's life.

    Getting back to the effect on an athletic program (and I could care a less about that vs. the effect on an individual's very being), the program in question currently enjoys a lofty position: big budget, a good competitive record within its conference and nationally, and an ostensibly "nice" head coach who seem progressive and prepares his athletes well. The dark side under his tutelage is athletes crashing and burning --with some never recovering.

    Thanks to Charlotte for being so open about the politics and machinations of this program. Kudos for the style in which her open letter was written, as well: classy and constructive. Hopefully prospective recruits will read it and reconsider; even better, the powers-that-be in question will read it and become more humane.

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  • cummings User since:
    Apr 1st, 2006
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    Cummings said 1 month ago

    Quoting: Andrew Jones

    I agree with this statement, and the shame of it is that athletes subjected to this type of program could have their athletics life ruined, with their heads messed up to the point that they end up detesting something they are great at and have loved.

    Moreover, the dire mental health issues (see eating disorders) that are sometimes attendant in this kind of "only love you when you're fast" environment could ruin (and even end) an athlete's life. "


    Couldn't agree with you more on this one. From the perspective of an educator (for what it is worth), the following comments aren't necessarily isolated to just athletics; BUT in general mental health issues in youth seem to be a bigger issue than they have been in the past. Whether that is because we are more aware of them or because they are actually a bigger problem I have no idea. I don't actually think it's that important which one is correct either. This is a topic unto itself what is the root cause of the current circumstance. Young adults struggle with mental health; our coaching and mentoring environments cannot be places that conflate this problem.

    Just this year alone, I have directed a personal record of students to our guidance counselor to get set up with professional counseling services. Mental health just seems to be an ever expanding problem.

    This post was edited by Cummings 1 month ago . 
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    Anonymous said 1 month ago

    If an athlete has an eating disorder, they need to stop running and get well. Unfortunately, it takes longer than a season off to recover from an eating disorder. Take a look at this athlete and it is evident that she is not at a healthy weight. Coaches and parents may need to step in and provide guidance because an eating disordered athlete has zero perspective about balance and health.

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  • new-post-last-visitanonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 month ago

    Quoting: Troll Takahashi
    "If an athlete has an eating disorder that's something they should be seeing doctors and psychologists about. At the end of the day I blame the parenting. If you care about your kid(s) and see your child has an eating disorder, it's time to get them the help they need, before they get hurt while what's assumed as (overtraining). Lol

    There is no such thing as Burn out or Overtraining.
    Go look at the Top Professional Triathletes in the World.
    They put in hundreds of miles a day in the water, on the bike and in running.
    I don't see many of the top pro's dying, because they get in the right amount of calories. Proper nutrition keeps our species strong. Poor nutrition and you'll become a twig and break down.
    Female Triathlete Daniela Ryf puts in way more miles than any NCAA or Usports track runner or XC runner and I don't see her with an eating disorder, or overtrained, or burnt out. She is simply the best in the World, because she has the right physiological tools, and psychological tools.

    If you have a problem, don't compete. Get healthy first, because in reality your Health is what matters most. Then your Happiness."



    LOL do you even know what overtraining is? Did you read the letter?

    I'll explain, (for the 10000000 time) just because you contradict yourself by saying you're not ignorant because we "dont know" you, but then you post something like this lol. Overtraining is when an athlete runs too much or trains at an intensity which is more then what their body can handle consistently, but yet they continue on. A steady build-up in volume and intensity is the key to not overtraining. This seems simple but can happen (especially in the NCAA where a scholarship athlete feels they have something to prove or needs to achieve "results") when an athlete does not want to show shame, may be shamed by teammates/coaches or does not have proper communication with their coach. Good nutrition helps, but does not prevent this lol. This is the coaching role Charlotte is talking about and the depressing mental battles an athlete may face when running there if those gaps aren't filled. Overtraining leads to constant fatigues, injury risk, sickness not to mention the mental health aspects also contribute or even create psychological disorders such as eating disorders when the pressures to perform are high and an athlete looks beyond overtraining.....Also, coachable athletes place a high level of importance on their coaches words, they're usually role models to them as they respect the knowledge they have to offer. So if someone you look up to is isolating you and speaking negatively about/to you... it hurts. On top of school, this is a lot to deal with.
    Does all that sound like a recipe for results?

    Don't even get me started on the Daniela Ryf comparison SMH. You are trying to compare full-time students to a pro-athlete that aren't even in the same sport! Someone who spent years running to build up to where she is vs a runner who may be as little as 1-2 years in. Let's take Justyn Knight for example (I think he has the "high heel") who has a 13:17 5k and has successfully won NCAA titles running 55 miles a week. Do you think his new pro coach is going to double his mileage next season so he can be as fast as Mo Ahmed or Levins who run 1xx-2xx miles a week? Because "there's no such thing as overtraining" right? loloololoollolol

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