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2019 London Distance Series Meets
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User since:
Aug 8th, 2014
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Ash said 2 weeks ago

Question: 2019 Pan American Games Team Size

I’m curious as to why the team for the Pan Am Games is so small this year. I remember that the selection criteria stated that the team would be around 45 athletes, with more added on a case-by-case basis (it’s at 46). Was this cap imposed due to budgetary constraints? Or was it due to the fact that NACAC and FISU Championships (as well as Diamond League meets) are around the same time and athlete availability was limited? I was rather disappointed that people like Caroline Erhardt or Agnes Esser were not selected in spite of achieving the qualifying marks. It seemed like a very competitive development opportunity for every group, from our up and coming middle distance runners to the men’s 4x400m relay team, who could have had a shot at breaking the Canadian record at a high level meet like this.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Our son made standard but was not selected. His CAPP advisor explained that the selection was done based on our top 45 athletes by world ranking. Since the team size was limited, they went with the top ranked athletes with the logic being that this should get us the best chance of good results. The standards system normally used wasn't applied.

    It was not clear to me if the number cap was internally or externally imposed.

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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Our son made standard but was not selected. His CAPP advisor explained that the selection was done based on our top 45 athletes by world ranking. Since the team size was limited, they went with the top ranked athletes with the logic being that this should get us the best chance of good results. The standards system normally used wasn't applied.

    It was not clear to me if the number cap was internally or externally imposed."



    AC set out its selection criteria for Pan Ams (and for all the other international meets, including the 2020 Olympics) on its website at: https://athletics.ca/national-team/criteria/

    Achieving standard is a necessary but not sufficient condition for selection to a team. Then, as the CAPP advisor indicated, the team was selected by ranking the athletes who declared and met standard according to their IAAF world ranking and going down the list until available slots (a total team of 45 and usually a maximum two athletes per gender per event) were filled. No approach to selecting a team is going to be without challenges but this method is transparent in its application.

    AC also indicated they may choose more than 45 if the budget allowed, and ended-up going with a team of 46.

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  • lobster User since:
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    Lobster said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Ash
    "I’m curious as to why the team for the Pan Am Games is so small this year. I remember that the selection criteria stated that the team would be around 45 athletes, with more added on a case-by-case basis (it’s at 46). Was this cap imposed due to budgetary constraints? Or was it due to the fact that NACAC and FISU Championships (as well as Diamond League meets) are around the same time and athlete availability was limited? I was rather disappointed that people like Caroline Erhardt or Agnes Esser were not selected in spite of achieving the qualifying marks. It seemed like a very competitive development opportunity for every group, from our up and coming middle distance runners to the men’s 4x400m relay team, who could have had a shot at breaking the Canadian record at a high level meet like this."


    Definitely Agnes and Caroline come to mind as being neglected athletes.

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  • lobster User since:
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    Lobster said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting Ash again, why is there no men in the 4 x 4 ?

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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Our son made standard but was not selected. His CAPP advisor explained that the selection was done based on our top 45 athletes by world ranking. Since the team size was limited, they went with the top ranked athletes with the logic being that this should get us the best chance of good results. The standards system normally used wasn't applied.

    It was not clear to me if the number cap was internally or externally imposed."


    The size of the team has been in the criteria since Athletics Canada released the information. https://athletics.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2019-Pan-Am-Games-Selection-Criteria-EN.pdf

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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Once qualifying standard was met, each team had differing criteria, can anyone explain the reasoning?

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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    I would assume quotas are imposed because of limited overall budget envelope for AC. Individual championship quotas are presumably based on some assessment of likely return on investment associated with AC strategy. They are in fact reasonably similar across championships except worlds if you take NACAC U18, U23 together each with 25, PanAm U20, 45, Pan Am 45. FISU 41 (budget implications for FISU were somewhat different due to athlete self funding), Worlds, no quota. Have not included Para team quotas here.

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  • rayraycanuck User since:
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    rayraycanuck said 2 weeks ago

    This post was edited by rayraycanuck 2 weeks ago . 
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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Adam Keenan- must have been close

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    JOHN said 2 weeks ago

    There is an entry quota per event as well. For ex. women's triple jump is 14 across all countries. Also, the OC has had to cut a lot of athletes, for example Brazil had to cut 5 selected athletes because the overall quota of 740 was too small. Same thing happened in Toronto.

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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    No official explanation from AC. Unless the "anonymous" commenters are using this method to inform us.

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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Qualifying Standard is misunderstood it just means you have met the "minimum Critieria to be considered" it does not mean that you have made the team.

    You need to remember there is a field size limit too.

    Team USA is 96 athletes. http://www.usatf.org/News/USATF-announces-2019-Pan-Am-Games-roster.aspx

    If the US sent every athlete that met the qualifying standard they would have a team 4x the size.

    AC needs to limit it's athletes so they can send a support team of 20+ coaches, trainers, managers etc. (Yes, the comment is tongue in cheek).

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    CPT said 2 weeks ago

    The team size was limited to 45 because of quotas imposed on AC, not because AC didn't want to send more people.

    With the rise of alternative sports like rugby, golf, surf, skateboarding, breakdancing, etc. We can only expect more and more quotas in the case of multi sports events. A given event, wether it is the Olympics, Pan Ams or Commonwealth, can only accommodate a maximum number of athletes within it's organisation. Then, the COC is given a limited number of Canadian athletes to bring across all sports. In that sense we will start competing with other sports in order to bring full teams.

    I would have to look into why there were quotas for NACAC/Pan um u-18/u-23, but again those were imposed by NACAC and not AC.

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    guest said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: CPT
    "The team size was limited to 45 because of quotas imposed on AC, not because AC didn't want to send more people.

    With the rise of alternative sports like rugby, golf, surf, skateboarding, breakdancing, etc. We can only expect more and more quotas in the case of multi sports events. A given event, wether it is the Olympics, Pan Ams or Commonwealth, can only accommodate a maximum number of athletes within it's organisation. Then, the COC is given a limited number of Canadian athletes to bring across all sports. In that sense we will start competing with other sports in order to bring full teams.

    I would have to look into why there were quotas for NACAC/Pan um u-18/u-23, but again those were imposed by NACAC and not AC."


    This is false information. Pan Am Games is not restricted like Commonwealth Games across all sports. AC could have sent more had they wanted too

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    Runfastrunfar said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: guest
    "This is false information. Pan Am Games is not restricted like Commonwealth Games across all sports. AC could have sent more had they wanted too"



    I know an athlete who easily qualified (achieved Standard AND would have been competitive - would have been able to legitimately challenge for a medal) for the 2015 Pan-Am Games but could not attend due to quotas, or at least that is what they told him.

    Runfastrunfar

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  • ash User since:
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    Ash said 1 week ago

    Is there any possibility that the team could add more athletes after the team announcement/closer to the Games? I couldn’t find any info on this in the selection criteria (sorry, I may have missed it). I assume not, but was kind of hopeful.

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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "AC needs to limit it's athletes so they can send a support team of 20+ coaches, trainers, managers etc. (Yes, the comment is tongue in cheek)."


    Don’t discount the value of these staff. There is a lot of running around making sure the path is cleared for athletes and of course with Physio’s the schedules are always full with athletes who need treatment. The team size is a completely different issue, but team staff are a valuable part of these teams, especially when they are held in third-world countries with not much in terms of infrastructure or support on the ground.

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    guest said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Ash
    "Is there any possibility that the team could add more athletes after the team announcement/closer to the Games? I couldn’t find any info on this in the selection criteria (sorry, I may have missed it). I assume not, but was kind of hopeful."


    No. The entry deadline closed on 27th. You can only replace if there is an injury and that is at a case by case.

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  • new-post-last-visitash User since:
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    Ash said 1 week ago

    Quoting: guest
    "No. The entry deadline closed on 27th. You can only replace if there is an injury and that is at a case by case."



    Noted, thank you for the info. That’s quite unfortunate - Canada could have easily sent a team of around 70 based on all of those who met the qualification standards. Hopefully those athletes not selected will be able to gain this high-level experience elsewhere in the near future.

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