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User since:
Nov 6th, 2018
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Balestrini said 1 month ago

St. Patrick's 5K: Accurate Distance?

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  • groaker User since:
    May 27th, 2014
    Posts: 202
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    Groaker said 1 month ago

    Quoting: Balestrini
    "Ouch, this one hurt, ;).

    Throughout my posts (if you read them), I consistently state that I believe GPS is not the most accurate way to measure a course, and that I personally believe that the course was accurate (it is certified)."


    You presented yourself as having undertaken an in-depth analysis of the race, resulting in

    Quoting: Balestrini
    "Road races on Strava are typically recorded as being slightly longer than the distance they are said to be contested. This is usually due to the measured distance being the shortest possible distance over the proposed route (running the tangents). GPS is not the most accurate way to measure a course. However, GPS distances for the majority of races (especially ones that are certified) are typically over the described distance. Including the assumption that everyone ran the exact tangent (they didn't) and never deviated from it (they did), the GPS data potentially point to the course this year being slightly short. Anecdotally, with a mean of 4.95, and based on other 5k race data on Strava, I would hazard a guess to say it was likely 80-100m shorter than advertised."

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  • mauricew User since:
    Dec 5th, 2012
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    mauricew said 1 month ago

    I freely admit to seriously goofing the measurement of a course a number of years ago. So an initial dose of healthy skepticism is not out of place when records are set, until the legitimacy of the performance is confirmed. I've called out a number of races over the years where questionable times have been recorded, and have taken the time to delve deeper to understand the causes.

    I also agree that in many cases runners watches record longer distances than the certified distance for the reasons identified, so when multiple Strava accounts record under distance then there is reason to question those times. Asking questions in a respectful manner, as Chris did, and then taking the time to rationally evaluating the evidence and the credibility of the sources should lead to a better understanding by everyone. Unfortunately anonymous trolls will continue to claim debunked facts from other anonymous sources as credible. Such is the world we live in today.

    Chris, thank you for quickly acknowledging that you considered the performances were legit once the facts were known. Come and run a PB yourself next year.

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  • balestrini User since:
    Nov 6th, 2018
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    Balestrini said 1 month ago

    Groaker - True, I did edit that post after the original and added that in! That was before Maurice posted the certificate, which I didn’t see online before! Again, all we have is the data we’re presented.

    Maurice - One day I’m sure I’ll end up doing this event, if I can kick the marathon bug!

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 month ago

    Quoting: Balestrini
    "Groaker - True, I did edit that post after the original and added that in! That was before Maurice posted the certificate, which I didn’t see online before! Again, all we have is the data we’re presented. "


    You posted that the course was likely 80-100m short.

    Other posters indicated the course was accurate.

    You backpedalled and then claimed to have been consistent throughout your posts, which is not true, while implying another poster hadn't bothered to read your posts.

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  • mauricew User since:
    Dec 5th, 2012
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    mauricew said 1 month ago

    Correcting one other bit of misinformation.

    Chris K, thanks for coming to the defense of course measurers, but the information you provided is inaccurate (and accuracy is the goal of course measurement).

    The "Short Course Prevention Factor" is 0.1%, or 5m over 5K. 5.05K would be an additional 50m, or 1%.

    But it also doesn't mean the course is 5005m. The SCPF is designed to account for variations in measurement, such as bike wobble, stones and other debris on the road, and changes in air temperature and bike tire pressure during the measurement. It means that a 5K course should be at least 5000m, but if measured correctly no more than 5005m long.

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  • kelsall User since:
    Oct 18th, 2010
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    Kelsall said 4 weeks ago

    Maurice,

    Just a lazy error. I know well that 1m per km is the extra that is added so that the distance will be 5005m for a 5K over the shortest possible tangents.

    Cheers..

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    big fan said 4 weeks ago

    Quoting: Balestrini
    "Groaker - True, I did edit that post after the original and added that in! That was before Maurice posted the certificate, which I didn’t see online before! Again, all we have is the data we’re presented.

    Maurice - One day I’m sure I’ll end up doing this event, if I can kick the marathon bug!"



    Hey Chris, no need to kick that marathon bug! Just go smash the event, and then run it again 3x at tempo pace as part of your workout :P

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    inspectorgadget said 4 weeks ago

    Course is 7m shorter than last yeat based on 2014 vs 2019 certification

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Eager to race said 4 weeks ago

    What would be a comparable race, flat fast course and great competition, in Ontario or Western Quebec? Where are the Ontario 5k championships?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Hah. said 4 weeks ago

    Quoting: Eager to race
    "What would be a comparable race, flat fast course and great competition, in Ontario or Western Quebec? Where are the Ontario 5k championships?"



    The first 4.8km of the Younge Street 10k.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 4 weeks ago

    Quoting: Hah.
    "The first 4.8km of the Younge Street 10k."


    Ya that’s absolutely comparable to the St. Pat’s 5k!

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 4 weeks ago

    I think the problem her is that runners east of the Manitoba border don't believe that athletes in Western Canada are actually capable of setting records and that race organizers aren't competent enough to lay out a proper course.

    I can't wait until the ACXC Championships when all the yahoos start complaining that the course is too short or maybe too long.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Zimmer said 3 weeks ago

    Quoting: cooperaa
    "If the course was accurate (and it sounds like it was) another way results can be inaccurate is the timing system. Compare people’s watch times to the ‘official’ results to get a sense if they match up well. (At last year’s chilly half the timing system cut about 5 seconds off people’s watch times.)"


    Ahhh... cmon man... so I didn't run a PB then?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    HandhillsHarrier said 3 weeks ago

    Nice time trial for the World XC's. Looks like a great team. Have a great run . Race well in Aarhus
    Have fun and give it your best. Cheers

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  • golden-boy User since:
    Jul 1st, 2016
    Posts: 58
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    Golden Boy said 3 weeks ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "I think the problem her is that runners east of the Manitoba border don't believe that athletes in Western Canada are actually capable of setting records and that race organizers aren't competent enough to lay out a proper course.

    I can't wait until the ACXC Championships when all the yahoos start complaining that the course is too short or maybe too long."


    Well there is no reason to argue the course isn't short. Unless the organizing committee figures it out ACXC in Abottsford will definitely be short.

    Provincials the last two years has been won in 22 minutes for 8km. We ain't breaking world records out here pal!

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    course runs slow 20s said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Eager to race
    "What would be a comparable race, flat fast course and great competition, in Ontario or Western Quebec? "


    Um, this race is not flat.

    Also, it is not short. Everyone knows that GPS doesn't pick up well in huge trees like Stanley Park has. Actually, maybe they don't know this in Toronto, where they are unfamiliar with trees over 40 years old.

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  • new-post-last-visitanonymous Anonymous
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    Roasted like a bbq said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: course runs slow 20s
    "maybe they don't know this in Toronto, where they are unfamiliar with trees over 40 years old."


    God damn. Man man just roasted the entire city of toronto. Get treated torontonians.

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