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U SPORTS PREDICTION CONTEST!
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Anonymous
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anonymous said 1 month ago

What is a Track Worth

The west end track community lost a bid for the Pan Am track that went to Toronto. Now rumor is that same track is going to be torn out in favour of turf. How can the track community benifit when most new school tracks are locked up, after 3pm , and the community tracks are being torn down?

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  • obvious User since:
    Apr 1st, 2007
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    Obvious said 1 month ago

    Pan Ams awarded YorkU the site of the Pan Am track on the premise that it would be a legacy facility (included in that agreement is $300k+ a year from the Pan Am legacy fund to go towards stadium operations).

    YorkU's contemplation of removing the track/grass infield in place of a football/soccer stadium would be reneging on this agreement (and forfeiting the legacy funding).

    Have you considered dropping a note to YorkU's President asking them to reconsider given the impact such a change would have on the thousands of members of the GTA track and field community (to say nothing of the value of a promise from YorkU made in order to get the stadium in the first place)?

    This post was edited by Obvious 1 month ago . 
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  • master2b User since:
    Jun 9th, 2011
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    Master2B said 1 month ago

    This reminds me of when Toronto hosted the 1993 World Indoors at the Skydome and shortly after sold the track to Arkansas for $1. I recall there was a promise to host indoor meets in Toronto using that track, including for CIS.

    Looks like the turf is a done-deal: https://yorkulions.ca/news/2018/5/29/varsity-athletics-lions-stadium-to-be-converted-to-turf-field-with-dome.aspx

    Doesn't mean the track is being torn down in fact it looks like a similar situation to UofT's Varsity Stadium.

    This post was edited by Master2B 1 month ago . 
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  • runningman User since:
    Feb 23rd, 2018
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    Runningman said 1 month ago

    Do you have some documentation about this proposal and the actual agreement? On the surface giving up $300K a year in favour of an all purpose field with no track doesn't make economic sense.

    There has to be more to it than this.

    considering that there is no outdoor track & field program for Canadian universities that are part of Usports the need for a track at the university is minimal. Does the university owe it to the community and community users to maintain a track? In their eyes probably not.

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  • obvious User since:
    Apr 1st, 2007
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    Obvious said 1 month ago

    Quoting: Runningman
    "Do you have some documentation about this proposal and the actual agreement? On the surface giving up $300K a year in favour of an all purpose field with no track doesn't make economic sense.
    "

    http://canada.pch.gc.ca/eng/1415027261444

    "The Toronto 2015 Sport Legacy Fund will ensure that three new facilities, built especially for the Toronto 2015 Games, will be properly maintained and accessible for athletes and the surrounding communities long after the Games have ended, including:

    the Pan Am/Parapan Am Athletics Stadium (during Games-Time, referred to as the CIBC Pan Am/ Parapan Am Athletics Stadium)."

    https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/toronto-2015-sport-legacy-fund-plan-announced-by-to2015-government-of-canada-province-of-ontario-513228191.html

    "At York, Athletics Canada will make use of the new Athletics Stadium and facilities to expand its high-performance programs.

    In the case of all three facilities, the high-performance sport users and facility owners will work closely together to identify opportunities to bid for and host major provincial, national and international events on an ongoing basis. This initiative will support the ongoing development of high-performance sport and sport tourism in Ontario and Canada, as well as provide economic stimulus for the area. It will also be a step forward in establishing Toronto as a premier national and international centre for sport hosting."

    http://canada.pch.gc.ca/eng/1415029684992/1415031297627#t5

    "This facility will also receive support through the Toronto2015 Sport Legacy Fund."

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    anonymous said 1 week ago

    When they tear out this track, the next line will be, sorry , there is no money to build a new facility ....Good bye tax dollars. Good bye Pan Am Track . https://york9fc.canpl.ca/

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    If you actually read the articles in your three links, there is no promise of continuation of the track facility, simply athletics. Soccer and football are also athletic events that promote fitness and healthy living.

    A quote from your second link says,

    “In the first three years of the Legacy Fund, the Aquatics Centre and Field House is expected to receive approximately $4.1 million, the Velodrome $736,000, and the Athletics Stadium $288,000. Thereafter, future drawdown allocations will be determined by the Legacy Fund Allocations Committee, based on annual business plans submitted by the facility owners.”

    That three year period is over. Continuance of funding is subject to the Legacy Fund Allocation Committee’s review of York’s business plan. Now m going to assume York has good people writing their busin so plan, and they will promote their plan as better access to more sporting events, thereby being more supportive and deserving of the funding than if they don’t make their proposed changes.

    They have secured a major Provincial event, OFSAA 2017, so they have also met their stated objective in that regard.

    Believe me, I’m all for track and field, but this is business as another poster mentioned, and it’s probably a very good business decision.

    What Canada needs in order to fund more infrastructure projects is major industrial investment. It’s small wonder the funding was committed in 2013 when oil investment was massive. We need to get our oil to tidewater to get a fair price and tax revenue for OUR resources so we can get the investment back so our Governments have the money to invest in infrastructure again.

    It’s all connected.

    Quoting: Obvious
    "http://canada.pch.gc.ca/eng/1415027261444

    "The Toronto 2015 Sport Legacy Fund will ensure that three new facilities, built especially for the Toronto 2015 Games, will be properly maintained and accessible for athletes and the surrounding communities long after the Games have ended, including:

    the Pan Am/Parapan Am Athletics Stadium (during Games-Time, referred to as the CIBC Pan Am/ Parapan Am Athletics Stadium)."

    https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/toronto-2015-sport-legacy-fund-plan-announced-by-to2015-government-of-canada-province-of-ontario-513228191.html

    "At York, Athletics Canada will make use of the new Athletics Stadium and facilities to expand its high-performance programs.

    In the case of all three facilities, the high-performance sport users and facility owners will work closely together to identify opportunities to bid for and host major provincial, national and international events on an ongoing basis. This initiative will support the ongoing development of high-performance sport and sport tourism in Ontario and Canada, as well as provide economic stimulus for the area. It will also be a step forward in establishing Toronto as a premier national and international centre for sport hosting."

    http://canada.pch.gc.ca/eng/1415029684992/1415031297627#t5

    "This facility will also receive support through the Toronto2015 Sport Legacy Fund.""

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  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
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    Meizner said 1 week ago

    The most depressing things about all of this is that anyone is surprised when the stated fairy tale spinoff benefits of Panam/ Olympic etc. games fail to materialize and the taxpayers are left with little but a fat bill. The whole Pan Am games was a typical boondoggle with numerous part time executives pocketing high six figure salaries for less that a year's work.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/wynne-says-pan-am-games-appear-under-budget-but-final-cost-not-yet-tallied/article26377992/

    https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/pan-am-games-exec-had-239k-salary-before-bonus-documents-1.2582013

    Ontario's auditor general says last summer's Pan Am and Parapan Am Games in Toronto came in $342 million over budget, but the province still paid more than $5 million in performance bonuses.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-auditor-general-finds-pan-am-games-342m-over-budget-but-bonuses-still-paid-1.3621851

    This post was edited by Meizner 1 week ago . 
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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    NOvember19 said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "The most depressing things about all of this is that anyone is surprised when the stated fairy tale spinoff benefits of Panam/ Olympic etc. games fail to materialize and the taxpayers are left with little but a fat bill. The whole Pan Am games was a typical boondoggle with numerous part time executives pocketing high six figure salaries for less that a year's work.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/wynne-says-pan-am-games-appear-under-budget-but-final-cost-not-yet-tallied/article26377992/

    https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/pan-am-games-exec-had-239k-salary-before-bonus-documents-1.2582013

    Ontario's auditor general says last summer's Pan Am and Parapan Am Games in Toronto came in $342 million over budget, but the province still paid more than $5 million in performance bonuses.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-auditor-general-finds-pan-am-games-342m-over-budget-but-bonuses-still-paid-1.3621851"



    calgarians should be watching closely

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  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
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    Meizner said 1 week ago

    There seems to be some sort of zeitgeist re: countries getting smarter about understanding the real cost of hosting. For example, in Calgary, both the province and feds have committed fixed amounts and refused to cover cost over-runs. In addition, the number of host cities bidding is rapidly dwindling, forcing the IOC to gradually (but too slowly) re-think their model (i.e. they can't keep all the profits and hose the host city).

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Runfastrunfar said 1 week ago

    I do not understand why high-use/high-performance tracks/athletics facilities in Canada are not "covered".

    We have at least 6-7 months of winter and there is never enough playing facilities - to me it seems so obvious. Could anyone please explain the situation to me. Cost can not be the only answer since the cost to build a facility of this caliber only for it to sit "fallow" for 6-7 months every year over its lifetime seem like an incredible waste. Thanks in advance.

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  • runningman User since:
    Feb 23rd, 2018
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    Runningman said 1 week ago

    A track will never have a positive return on it's investment. High initial cost with a relatively short lifespan before it needs replacing.

    If you want to cover it like Runfastrunfar you are looking at tens of millions more to cover a full size track.

    That brings up the question of more indoor facilities. Wouldn't it be great if every major Canadian city had a top notch indoor track. Has anyone been to Ocean Breeze on Staten Island?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Runningman
    "A track will never have a positive return on it's investment. High initial cost with a relatively short lifespan before it needs replacing.

    If you want to cover it like Runfastrunfar you are looking at tens of millions more to cover a full size track.

    That brings up the question of more indoor facilities. Wouldn't it be great if every major Canadian city had a top notch indoor track. Has anyone been to Ocean Breeze on Staten Island?"


    The positive return on investment is providing a world rated facility that can support Ontario athletes for years to come. Track replacement is far less than building a new track. there are a million unused soccer fields and football fields. Track is facility specific sport that can generate revenue if the NSO's want to host such events, providing employment and encouragement for the local community. This move is more disconnected and does not provide the new facilities needed for our youth to succeed. Europe has these tracks in most cities and families attend these track events for and evening out. If the infrastructure is in place what purpose does in serve to destroy it to tear it out and start from scratch? Outside of providing more tax dollars to to private companies, I'd prefer if they left the track in place and just give the money to whoever. at least we would still have a nice functioning facility.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    anonymous said 1 week ago

    The removal of the track is a contributing factor to this article

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/income-inequality-explains-decline-youth-sports/574975/

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  • new-post-last-visitanonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 6 days ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "The positive return on investment is providing a world rated facility that can support Ontario athletes for years to come. Track replacement is far less than building a new track. there are a million unused soccer fields and football fields. Track is facility specific sport that can generate revenue if the NSO's want to host such events, providing employment and encouragement for the local community. This move is more disconnected and does not provide the new facilities needed for our youth to succeed. Europe has these tracks in most cities and families attend these track events for and evening out. If the infrastructure is in place what purpose does in serve to destroy it to tear it out and start from scratch? Outside of providing more tax dollars to to private companies, I'd prefer if they left the track in place and just give the money to whoever. at least we would still have a nice functioning facility."


    All well and good in theory but this is not Europe and 99% of the population could give a damn about track. Every city has numerous of "dual purpose" facilities and said events can be held there. How many events do you actually think will be held that require seating for more than 500 people? Let me count......none. Legions were held at a facility that seated less than 500 people and there was still room to spare.

    At our club we have been lobbying for the municipality to resurface the track. Response has been "we can not justify the cost at this time" followed by "the clubs that use the facility will need to fund a significant portion of the cost". Our club has 200 member families do you think they will support a $1000 increase in their membership fees to pay for a track their children will use for 3-5 years at most?

    This is the wave of the future. The cost to replace the all-purpose turf field was partially funded by user groups (ie. football. soccer & lacrosse organizations)

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