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Elementary School XC Super Meet

Altitude and National Track Champs- Distance night.


Posted 2 months ago by Trackie | Source: The Coaching Equation

User Comments

  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 months ago

    Only listened to half... I was expecting more of the science and purpose behind altitude training, but it was just story time of experience with altitude training camps

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 months ago

    Science is readily available but the results vary individually so anecdotes can be useful.

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  • jlofranco User since:
    Apr 17th, 2014
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    jlofranco said 2 months ago

    I think we are pretty clear that we are not there to discuss the science of things. Also, when it comes to altitude, the science is interesting but the results tend to vary so much that it's not really possible to provide a prescription. The goal was to talk about the experience to show that, indeed, there's not one answer.

    From what I've read, the science can be summed up in a few points:
    1. minimum stay is two weeks, but longer is better.
    2. multiple stays are good
    3. everyone reacts differently, both in terms of blood results and race results (the two do not always go hand in hand).

    In speaking with other coaches, in particular those who coach athletes at a high level, they are quite adamant that distance runners should go to altitude when possible.

    There are also significant psycho-social benefits, aka "training camp effect" that point to altitude being a good idea.

    What was interesting about this stay was that it was a fairly intense load (live-high, train-high). My previous experience had been with using it more as a base-phase. Felix's idea was to go later in the season to get closer to the goal races and hopefully benefit more in them from the altitude. This required doing more work at closer to race effort than I'd previously experienced. I wonder if an alternative solution would have been to do a session in Feb/March in base phase, come back to sea-level (train-low) and do a more intense phase in April/May, then go back up for 3 weeks for a kind of aerobic refresher (so very polarised, volume, sprints and tempo) then come back and race at nationals and beyond. I suspect this would work well for some and less for others. You have to balance how an athlete likes to feel going into a race. Some people need to be rolling hard, others need to be more rested. I think this mirrors what a lot of Africans do as they travel back and forth between home and Europe.

    The "train low" part could be achieved at Flagstaff maybe but it was harder to do so in Utah. The travel factor has to be taken into account as well. And this group was not professional (with the exception of CPT who was there for part of it) but rather university or recently post-collegiate.

    It's an open question, I don't think we know all the answers, other than it's good to spend time at altitude. There are different ideas on what to do when you are there.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 months ago

    Do people from Arizona generally place higher at Boston & NYC marathons than the locals?

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  • jlofranco User since:
    Apr 17th, 2014
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    jlofranco said 2 months ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Do people from Arizona generally place higher at Boston & NYC marathons than the locals?"


    The question would need to be more scientific than that. Altitude is not a panacea, it's part of a plan. You'd have to figure out a way to make all other things equal (training history and opportunity, preparation leading up to the race, mental state on the day) to pull out what effect altitude has. Seems like people from east Africa tend to place higher than the locals, but that's not all altitude either.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 months ago

    Quoting: jlofranco
    "The question would need to be more scientific than that. Altitude is not a panacea, it's part of a plan. You'd have to figure out a way to make all other things equal (training history and opportunity, preparation leading up to the race, mental state on the day) to pull out what effect altitude has. Seems like people from east Africa tend to place higher than the locals, but that's not all altitude either."



    So in other words altitude training is not the key to success.

    IMHO this need for 2-3 weeks of altitude training and "spring training camps" in warm climates by people who have finished college and are living a dream of making a name for themselves or to make a National team are just using it as an excuse to not get a real job and get on with their careers.

    Just like these college grads spending 4-6 weeks in Europe during the summer to compete in events just to see them finish no higher than 8th place yet according to their wonderful Instagram posts are having a wonderful experience.

    What they really need to post is..."Thanks mommy and daddy for paying for my college education and paying for me to spend the summer in Europe. I promise to look for job in a few years when I get tired of travelling the world and spending the cold months in Florida/Arizona/California to train just to maybe make the finals in the Canadian Nationals."

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    LikeTheDeadSea said 2 months ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "So in other words altitude training is not the key to success.

    IMHO this need for 2-3 weeks of altitude training and "spring training camps" in warm climates by people who have finished college and are living a dream of making a name for themselves or to make a National team are just using it as an excuse to not get a real job and get on with their careers.

    Just like these college grads spending 4-6 weeks in Europe during the summer to compete in events just to see them finish no higher than 8th place yet according to their wonderful Instagram posts are having a wonderful experience.

    What they really need to post is..."Thanks mommy and daddy for paying for my college education and paying for me to spend the summer in Europe. I promise to look for job in a few years when I get tired of travelling the world and spending the cold months in Florida/Arizona/California to train just to maybe make the finals in the Canadian Nationals.""


    Bitter much?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    The Anonymous Anon said 2 months ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "So in other words altitude training is not the key to success.

    IMHO this need for 2-3 weeks of altitude training and "spring training camps" in warm climates by people who have finished college and are living a dream of making a name for themselves or to make a National team are just using it as an excuse to not get a real job and get on with their careers.

    Just like these college grads spending 4-6 weeks in Europe during the summer to compete in events just to see them finish no higher than 8th place yet according to their wonderful Instagram posts are having a wonderful experience.

    What they really need to post is..."Thanks mommy and daddy for paying for my college education and paying for me to spend the summer in Europe. I promise to look for job in a few years when I get tired of travelling the world and spending the cold months in Florida/Arizona/California to train just to maybe make the finals in the Canadian Nationals.""



    Bitter but speaks truth.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    NotJD said 2 months ago

    In conclusion,
    The advantage is very little.
    Daniels already told us this


    Quoting: jlofranco
    "The question would need to be more scientific than that. Altitude is not a panacea, it's part of a plan. You'd have to figure out a way to make all other things equal (training history and opportunity, preparation leading up to the race, mental state on the day) to pull out what effect altitude has. Seems like people from east Africa tend to place higher than the locals, but that's not all altitude either."

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  • jlofranco User since:
    Apr 17th, 2014
    Posts: 28
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    jlofranco said 2 months ago

    I mean...if you don't have some talent and also train properly then you end up as the bitter poster described. I think altitude has a place. I would suggest you need to really max out your sea-level training first. If you can't do any more volume, then to get further aerobic advantage you could go to altitude. I think it's really in the area of a marginal advantage, but when you are at a certain level, those marginal advantages are precisely what you are chasing. It's certainly possible that some athletes jump the gun on this and could be working on further increasing the foundation first.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 months ago

    Quoting: LikeTheDeadSea
    "Bitter much?"



    You may think it's bitterness however the comment is very true. We parents call it "failure to launch".

    There are many athletes that need to wake up and realize that once they complete university athletics it's time seriously evaluate if they should be spending their parents money (yes be honest your parents are footing the bill) to pursue a dream rather than beginning their working careers.

    Let's he honest boys and girls if you are 23 years old and running the 1500m in 3:45.00 and 4:15.00 respectively your chances of making a living running or making a Canadian National team for Indoor WC, Outdoor WC or Olympics is about nil.

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    Anonymous said 2 months ago

    What's wrong with pursuing something you love, perhaps this enables one to grow as a person. I would be more inclined to question why so many work dead end jobs they hate. Regardless of how they were funded to travel, why not be happy they have an opportunity to pursue something they love. Would be nice to see everyone have opportunities like these.

    Maybe they worked all year and saved money, I'm sure they made finiacial sacrafices. Getting the most out of oneself requires a bit of risk, you never know what you're capable of until you take a leap and go for it.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 months ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "You may think it's bitterness however the comment is very true. We parents call it "failure to launch".

    There are many athletes that need to wake up and realize that once they complete university athletics it's time seriously evaluate if they should be spending their parents money (yes be honest your parents are footing the bill) to pursue a dream rather than beginning their working careers.

    Let's he honest boys and girls if you are 23 years old and running the 1500m in 3:45.00 and 4:15.00 respectively your chances of making a living running or making a Canadian National team for Indoor WC, Outdoor WC or Olympics is about nil."


    Maybe people just want to see how fast they can run? Maybe making teams is only a reflection of whether or not you've achieved your potential, and not the end goal. Maybe training and racing is fun. It's up to the parents I guess if they want to cut someone off but there's a lot to be said for seeing what you can do.

    #h8ersgonh8

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  • new-post-last-visitanonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 months ago

    Before they start college we need to remind them of why they are attending college.
    Sure you you can get an education, yah ok so you can run in college but this process boys and girls is so YOU CAN GET A JOB

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