• Login
  • |
  • Contact

    LIVE SUPPORT

    SEND US A MESSAGE

    ContactCode

    OTHER

    Email:
    info@trackie.com

    Voicemail:
    1.877.456.5544

To help prevent spammers please
enter the two words below.


image-display1

TrackieTV >>

Enter video URL

NCAA VS CIS: The Decision

Maxine Gravina Thesis Project 2015/2016 Making a postsecondary decision can be tough, but adding in what varsity team one will compete for can make that decision harder. Some young Canadians need to determine whether the NCAA or the CIS is the right choice for their post secondary education and varsity career.
Posted 1 year ago by Trackie | Source: Maxine Gravina

User Comments

  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 32
    Report    REPLY #1 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Very one sided documentary. It wouldn't have been hard to find at least one athlete who decided to stay in the NCAA and had a good experience. This is a position piece.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 13
    Report    REPLY #2 

    anonymous said 1 year ago

    Most of the people in the video is lying. They all make it seem like CIS is better than the NCAA and we all know that is not true. Competition in Canada is weak and I guess all those athletes were too weak mentally to survive in the NCAA

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 32
    Report    REPLY #3 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Quoting: anonymous
    "Most of the people in the video is lying. They all make it seem like CIS is better than the NCAA and we all know that is not true. Competition in Canada is weak and I guess all those athletes were too weak mentally to survive in the NCAA"


    I think that's the issue right there. Surviving a system shouldn't be the goal. Thriving in it (and hopefully after it) is the goal.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 7
    Report    REPLY #4 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Agreed that they need to get the perspective of one or two athletes that went the NCAA route and did well (or at least struggled and pushed through any adversity) to determine if they had any regrets.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 13
    Report    REPLY #5 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Just a few points:

    1. If you really want to compare X to Y, you don't ask 5 people in the X to talk about their experience and then neglect to ask people in the Y about theirs. So NCAA vs CIS is a misnomer; it should be called Why CIS and not NCAA, because they are trying to show just one side.

    2. The very idea of comparing NCAA to CIS is absurd, as they are not really comparable. The one system brings these days some of the best athletes from all over the world, makes a truckload of money via TV contracts, and is professionalized to its core. The other one is more provincial in all respects (and I don't mean provincial in a demeaning way, just way more limited).

    3. What are we comparing, even within each system? Are Stanford and University of Mary (first time I hear about this place) comparable? Are living in NYC and living in a small college town in Kentucky comparable? Are the U of Toronto and St. Francis Xavier comparable? Of the people interviewed in the video, Gabriela Stafford and the Western coach are about the only ones that know what they are talking about and clearly state that it is a matter of individual fit (in all respects).

    4. I am sure that NCAA can be a truly devastating experience for some students when things don't work as they expected, which simply means that you first have to make sure you know that this kind of decision depends 99% on how well you know yourself: what you need in order to thrive and how you respond to change and adversity. Gabriela shows her maturity in the track is simply a reflection of her maturity outside the track. On the other hand, Connor Darlington seems to be mostly concerned about what his place in the rankings would be. In such a case, why stay in Canada and be 12, when you can surely find a country where you would rank top 3?

    The decision is about goals and expectations, and it needs to be grounded in real knowledge. Of which this video provides little.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #6 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Wow, what a bunch of sour grapes!
    Of course it is not going to be the best fit for all athletes. Perhaps knowing oneself a little more and knowing the program they were entering would have been helpful for these returning athletes (Duke has been well known for its problems). Maturity levels came to mind when the mention of finishing 12 in CIS XC was more appealing than down the list in the NCAA. For many athletes this would be reversed.

    It is too bad that the thoroughly positive experience of so many Canadians in the NCAA had not been explored, but I guess balance was not the intent of the thesis.

    Quote comment
  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
    Posts: 689
    thumbs_up 4
    Report    REPLY #7 

    Meizner said 1 year ago

    There is indeed some selection bias slanted towards CIS (likely b/c of available resources). It should have been reasonably easy to find some NC grads SW Ontario though-- one could even have solicited via trackie or done some via skype

    However, Truelove (who finished at Duke and moved to CIS for grad school) provides a pretty balanced perspective from the POV of someone who saw the pros/ cons of each system.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 46
    Report    REPLY #8 

    Maxine Gravina said 1 year ago

    Hi everyone,

    First off I’d like to apologize if I’ve offended anyone with my documentary, that was not my intention. I am in my fourth year of the multimedia/communications program at McMaster University, and this year I was required to complete a thesis project. My project could be on anything, all my professor asked was that I pick a topic I was interested in and to create something that would get a conversation going. The topic I chose was collegiate athletics, and being a high school and varsity runner, I wanted to get a better understanding of why some young Canadians coming out of high school wanted to go to school in the United States and compete in the NCAA, and to compare the CIS and NCAA as these are the two major options for a young Canadian athlete making their post secondary decision.

    Of course this documentary will be a little bias, I am a CIS athlete but my intention was not to say the CIS was better than the NCAA. If you watch my whole documentary you will see I state you cannot compare the two organizations, that they are too culturally different to compare.

    The learning experience; tremendous. I learned a lot about both organizations, met some great people (including people I didn’t get to interview), and learned a lot about making a documentary. I agree with what most are saying, I should have interviewed at least one current successful Canadian competing in the NCAA system (Justyn Knight, Evelyne Guay, Rob Denault, Andre De Grasse, Erin Teschuk, etc.) but as I said before I this was a learning experience.

    My thesis was approved by the McMaster Research Ethics Board in mid-january, what did this mean? I only had 6 weeks to film, and 4 weeks to edit my documentary. Until my thesis was approved I was also not allowed to contact anyone before to see if they were interested in being interviewed for my project. January and February were not the ideal times to film aswell, as everyone knows this is a big time for training, racing, and school, meaning my participants times for interviews were limited. Not only was my participants time limited, but mine was as well. At the time I was working on my thesis I was also enrolled in two other university courses, working a part time job, and getting regular physio treatment for an injury I’ve been dealing with the past year.

    The participants I picked to interview were all geographically close to Hamilton where I attend school and live. Western and Toronto made travelling less expensive and gave myself more time to work on the project. Thinking back I could have attempted to contact current Canadian NCAA athletes but I’m not sure if we would have been able to set a time and meeting place that didn’t involve travel money or a busy schedule.

    There were also previous NCAA Canadian athletes I wanted to interview originally who had competed in the NCAA and had successful careers, but respecting there wishes they were not interviewed. I’d also like to point out Amanda and Hwang enjoyed their NCAA experiences and stated that in the documentary.

    I had a lot of respect for my participants, speaking out on an opinion piece puts one in a state of vulnerability as we’ve seen in the comment thread. Defending my teammate Connor, when he was speaking about being 12th in Canada and that ranking transferring lower in the NCAA, it was not meant to say he stayed in Canada to be one of the top runners. Connor was explaining how there is a larger population in the US with many athletes running those times.

    In conclusion I was very happy with how my project turned out. I apologize again to anyone I have offended, my intention was for my film to be a piece that a young Canadian could use that was struggling with this decision coming out of high school, someone that is not sure who to turn to and know that this is a difficult decision but either way they are in good hands. They need to understand how big of a decision this is not only for there athletics, but more importantly their academics. These are some of the most important years of our life and the experience we have at a post secondary institution is something that will stick with us later on in life, and shape who we are as individuals.

    If you take a look at who represented team Canada at the international level in the past year, we can see there are individuals from both the NCAA and the CIS which have shined. You can become successful and reach your maximum potential in either.

    If I revisit this project in the future I will try and make the project less bias, but for now happy running and enjoy your outdoor seasons.

    Quote comment
  • sammyd User since:
    Oct 30th, 2013
    Posts: 206
    thumbs_up 7
    Report    REPLY #9 

    SammyD said 1 year ago

    The comments give a different impression of this video than the actual video did. While yes, they definitely should have talked to coaches/athletes who spent their entire collegiate career in the NCAA, there is not some overarching propaganda of "the NCAA will ruin you, run for your lives!". The interviewees speak generally quite well of the CIS but virtually all of them concluded it was an individual decision, the CIS is improving, but the NCAA is something else bigger and more competitive.

    Did I miss something?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 11
    Report    REPLY #10 

    Summarizer said 1 year ago

    Quite certain that each individual meant no hostility towards the NCAA, even if it collectively came off that way. Certainly, everyone knows that the NCAA has tons of dollars, tons of competition, and also is a location to receive education.

    Schnurr mentioned she thinks the U.S. schools do MORE sessions together, but IN HER OPINION, quality is more important. This is an opinion, and does nothing to berate the NCAA. She also talks about the seasons being different, and that influences on national meets, but never states that either option is better.

    Darlington mentioned that he wanted somewhere to develop and stay healthy. (I am sure some NCAA schools also have understanding coaches.) His mention of ranking I'm sure was to illustrate an advantage of the NCAA - lots of competition. Not a negative.

    Truelove talks about the routine of NCAA athletes being more intensive/volumes. She notes that it was 'the norm' at the time to go to the states after high school. She notes how it is hard when you have school to balance but also have high athletic expectations. This may be construed as negative, but perhaps is more matter-of-fact for all athletes.

    Dave Mills discussed performance and expectations, more athletic in the states, and (potentially) more academic in Canada, merely that there is an academic emphasis on athletes. Balance being key for what an athlete can handle. "employee of that university"

    Hwang discusses that there is performance expectations, and scholarship withdrawal can take place barring some major set-back, which is likely true for many universities. He did not have a good NCAA experience, but could be perhaps cancelled out by another NCAA example that was positive?

    Stafford discusses her personal development and how her best fit is here. Clearly U of T has been great to her and she is doing well.

    Overall, ACADEMICS are an important determinant. There could have been more NCAA positives thrown into the video from alumni or current athletes, but I'm sure the video PROJECT had time restrictions as well, with all school projects. Additionally, all athletes weren't choosing from CIS or NCAA broadly, but SPECIFIC colleges to choose from, and those individual colleges have pros and cons. For Stafford, U of T and Stanford. For Truelove, Duke and Western. For Darlington, McMaster and Iona. For Mills, W. Kentucky and Western.

    Quote comment
  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
    Posts: 689
    thumbs_up 8
    Report    REPLY #11 

    Meizner said 1 year ago

    Yes you actually watched the video rather than forming a knee jerk reaction based on the first 30 seconds...!

    Quoting: Vladimir Runin
    "The comments give a different impression of this video than the actual video did. While yes, they definitely should have talked to coaches/athletes who spent their entire collegiate career in the NCAA, there is not some overarching propaganda of "the NCAA will ruin you, run for your lives!". The interviewees speak generally quite well of the CIS but virtually all of them concluded it was an individual decision, the CIS is improving, but the NCAA is something else bigger and more competitive.

    Did I miss something?"

    Quote comment
  • beaner User since:
    Jun 21st, 2015
    Posts: 23
    thumbs_up 7
    Report    REPLY #12 

    Beaner said 1 year ago

    Although there was some bias in the film (as expected as it is from the perspective of a CIS athlete) I think it achieved its main purpose, which was to try and show Canadian high school runners that there is no shame in competing in the CIS. Many high school athletes have the mindset of NCAA or bust, and because of this many end up attending some unknown D1 school with a sub-par running and academic program just to say they have competed in the NCAA. If you are good enough to be offered a D1 scholarship to a decent school then that would seem to be the obvious place to go, but as the documentary shows the CIS is not as bad as it is made out to be.

    This post was edited by Beaner 1 year ago . 
    Quote comment
  • roach User since:
    Oct 30th, 2013
    Posts: 30
    thumbs_up 8
    Report    REPLY #13 

    Roach said 1 year ago

    Quoting: anonymous
    "Most of the people in the video is lying. They all make it seem like CIS is better than the NCAA and we all know that is not true. Competition in Canada is weak and I guess all those athletes were too weak mentally to survive in the NCAA"


    Maybe I'm going to sound a bit like Oldster here, but what is with this comment? I'd be interested to see if this 'anonymous' character has ever been in the NCAA system or the CIS system. Anonymously calling out the people in this video by saying that they are lying is pretty weak in my opinion. From watching this video (the whole thing, start to finish), everyone gave their own opinion based on their own experiences. Of the people interviewed, if an Olympian (P. Schnurr) and two athletes who have represented Canada multiple times (G. Stafford and C. Darlington) are considered too weak mentally to survive the NCAA, I'm not sure who could survive.

    Quote comment
  • 1992ofsaa User since:
    Apr 6th, 2014
    Posts: 283
    thumbs_up 9
    Report    REPLY #14 

    1992ofsaa said 1 year ago

    Very easy decision:

    If you want to accomplish something academically - stay in Canada

    If you want to take bird courses and just concentrate on your sport - go down to the NCAA

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 14
    Report    REPLY #15 

    another perspective said 1 year ago

    Quoting: Maxine Gravina
    "Of course this documentary will be a little bias, I am a CIS athlete but my intention was not to say the CIS was better than the NCAA. If you watch my whole documentary you will see I state you cannot compare the two organizations, that they are too culturally different to compare.."


    I've watched this for a second time and my quick summary of it is as follows:

    -Decisions to go out to the NCAA are based on pressure, prestige, eagerness to get a scholarship.
    -In the NCAA only running is prioritized--there is lack of balance, pressure to perform, rushed recoveries, it's glorified, hit and miss academics, scholarship reductions.
    -CIS offers greater balance of academics/athletics, long-term development, better national team opportunities, the customary references to guelph and CPT as examples of excellence
    - CIS drawbacks; minimal tv coverage and academics is so awesome that there is more pressure on athletes.
    -Conclusion: CIS is way better, but it's hard to compare (although we just did for the entire 25 minute video) oh and it's an individual decision (totally makes this video a balanced perspective).

    Let me know if i missed anything. Since your video completely neglected an unbiased NCAA perspective, ill share mine. I was an okay high school runner, subjectively top 10 or so in my provincial class. I had relative success in the NCAA, made nationals a couple times, experienced the ups and downs of the system. From a running standpoint, I really don't think my performances would have been significantly different regardless of the system. There are definitely truths to some of the drawbacks mentioned in the video, but for the most part definitely over exaggerated. I don't think those drawbacks are limited to the NCAA, i'm sure there are schools in Canada with pressure to perform, lack of balance, etc. The one critique of the NCAA system that is almost always presented as fact is the idea that your degree is worthless unless it is from 'Stanford, Michigan, or the Ivy league', as Gabriella Stafford alluded to. As someone that didn't graduate from one of these institutions I can say that it couldn't be further from the truth, undergraduate degrees by and large do not offer much differentiation in the job market, what an individual does with his or her degree is largely based on the merits of that individual. If you cannot express your value to a graduate school or employer without using the perceived worth of your undergraduate institution as a crutch than you're professional ceiling is probably limited to the perceived value of your undergraduate institution. I can keep rambling, but the point I am trying to make is your NCAA or CIS experience is what you make of it. Your academic, athletic and professional achievements are really not gonna be that different because of the system. Had I stayed in the Canadian system, my running, academic, and professional achievements would probably not be much different. The biggest advantage of the CIS that wasn't highlighted in that promotion video is the fact that the CIS offers a bigger safety net for 18 year old kids, living in a different country with different cultural values, away from home for the first time is definitely not for everyone.

    If you can watch that entire video and somehow think it offers a balanced viewpoint than you're probably biased without even realizing it.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 5
    Report    REPLY #16 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Quoting: 1992ofsaa
    "Very easy decision:

    If you want to accomplish something academically - stay in Canada

    If you want to take bird courses and just concentrate on your sport - go down to the NCAA"


    Then I am guessing, based on this (and other) posts, you majored in Ufology at Middle Mississippi State College.

    Blanket statements like these do nothing to add to the conversation. You seem to live on OFSAA lore - Sully has an engineering degree from the University of Michigan - pretty sure it's not bird nest engineering.

    Many others who have gone to the states have chosen Stanford, Harvard and other post secondary institutions with academic standards on par (above?) any Canadian Institution.

    Quote comment
  • obvious User since:
    Apr 1st, 2007
    Posts: 747
    thumbs_up 7
    Report    REPLY #17 

    Obvious said 1 year ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Sully has an engineering degree from the University of Michigan - pretty sure it's not bird nest engineering.
    "


    Civil, I believe. So maybe he just might be able to engineer a pretty good bird's nest.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #18 

    AmateurIdeal said 1 year ago

    I was disappointed not to see Oldster featured in this video. ; )

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/sports/wp/2015/11/23/running-up-the-bills/

    Quote comment
  • 1992ofsaa User since:
    Apr 6th, 2014
    Posts: 283
    thumbs_up 12
    Report    REPLY #19 

    1992ofsaa said 1 year ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Then I am guessing, based on this (and other) posts, you majored in Ufology at Middle Mississippi State College.

    Blanket statements like these do nothing to add to the conversation. You seem to live on OFSAA lore - Sully has an engineering degree from the University of Michigan - pretty sure it's not bird nest engineering.

    Many others who have gone to the states have chosen Stanford, Harvard and other post secondary institutions with academic standards on par (above?) any Canadian Institution."


    Another 'Anonymous' retard trolling.

    No I didn't major in Ufology. I chose to stay in Canada and studied medicine and became a licensed practicing physician. I also studied computers and started an internet business that has secured my financial future.

    Did I make the right decision of staying in the CIS and concentrating on my education? You bet I did. I continued to run and race in the OUAA and CIAU, but on my terms and when I wanted to.

    Had I gone to the NCAA, my grades/studies would have taken a back seat to endless mileage, races and pressures from the University paying my over-priced tuition. No thanks.

    All for what? To run some fast times, get some medals and then what? What job could I get with those things?

    Yes Sully did a B.Eng,, but he has stated that he never used it. He is working as a running coach back at the same school he was a runner at.

    I stand by what I said. The vast majority of Canucks that went down to the NCAA took easy, useless courses, on route to a worthless B.A., so they could concentrate solely on their sport. Which is essentially all the NCAA is. A sport factory, that just processes athletes on an assembly line, to help the coaches earn fat salaries.

    The statistics for NCAA athletes graduating is horrendous . . . and when you look at the stats based on race (black vs white), they are beyond appalling. Runners are actually not that bad, but you should look at the stats for football and basketball players. Yikes!

    Want a good education and career after the running days are over? Stay in the CIS, run on your own terms and concentrate on your education.

    Want to piss off your education in search of some undergrad running glory? Go down to the NCAA and do nothing but run, run and run.

    Excellent documentary by the way. Very happy to see so many great Canadian runners staying in the great white north. Some of them are doing superb as CD said about CPT and RP.

    This post was edited by 1992ofsaa 1 year ago . 
    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 4
    Report    REPLY #20 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Quoting: 1992ofsaa
    "Another 'Anonymous' retard trolling.

    No I didn't major in Ufology. I chose to stay in Canada and studied medicine and became a licensed practicing physician. I also studied computers and started an internet business that has secured my financial future.

    Did I make the right decision of staying in the CIS and concentrating on my education? You bet I did. I continued to run and race in the OUAA and CIAU, but on my terms and when I wanted to.

    Had I gone to the NCAA, my grades/studies would have taken a back seat to endless mileage, races and pressures from the University paying my over-priced tuition. No thanks.

    All for what? To run some fast times, get some medals and then what? What job could I get with those things?

    Yes Sully did a B.Eng,, but he has stated that he never used it. He is working as a running coach back at the same school he was a runner at.

    I stand by what I said. Almost all ( probably all ) Canucks that went down to the NCAA took easy, useless courses, on route to a worthless B.A., so they could concentrate solely on their sport. Which is essentially all the NCAA is. A sport factory, that just processing athletes, to help the coaches earn fat salaries.

    The statistics for NCAA athletes graduating is horrendous . . . and when you look at the stats based on race (black vs white), they are beyond appalling. Runners are actually not that bad, but you should look at the stats for football and basketball players. Yikes!

    Want a good education and career after the running days are over? Stay in the CIS, run on your own terms and concentrate on your education.

    Want to piss off your education in search of some undergrad running glory? Go down to the NCAA and do nothing but run, run and run.

    Excellent documentary by the way. Very happy to see so many great Canadian runners staying in the great white north. Some of them are doing superb as CD said about CPT and RP."



    Ahhh - but you didn't go to the NCAA so you'll never know what it was like, what you could have been, what you missed out on. Sounds like you are still trying to justify your decision...
    Move on bud - don't you have a patient to see or an empire to run?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #21 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    I would say some of the arguments stated are pretty one sided, I know athletes in the NCAA at high prestige schools who focus on their academics while still performing at a high level and on the other hand I know athletes in the CIS who focus almost solely on running and do not take their academics seriously. Furthermore the NCAA has more academic support systems for athletes in place than institutions in Canada.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #22 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    SFU...? One of the top schools academically in Canada, and compete in the NCAA div 2 (which is more competitive than the CIS). The middle distance runners at SFU are high caliber recently. Canadian education and NCAA experience. Problem solved.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 8
    Report    REPLY #23 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    https://jeremyrae.com/2016/04/21/cis-vs-ncaa-a-more-balanced-perspective/

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #24 

    runningok said 1 year ago

    Just a question:
    I went to a CIS school, often refereed to as a Top 8 school nationally and mentioned in the above posts as being a top school.

    We met as a team 3 times a week to train.. 2 Workouts, 1 long run. Is this standard for other CIS schools? This allowed us to have easy runs on our own schedule.

    How many times a week do CIS schools meet to practice per week vs an NCAA school? Are there easy runs a scheduled time together or alone? Amanda made it seem like at Duke, the team meets every day 3pm-6/7pm.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 11
    Report    REPLY #25 

    anon said 1 year ago

    1) Great job Maxine, you put together a stellar video, and I look forward to seeing more videos from you in the future

    2) Whether you agree with the video or not, please stop belittling the Maxine's work. She obviously put a lot of time and energy into the production and used the resources that she had readily available.

    3) Above all, this video has sparked some great heated discussions of peoples egotistical opinions, and at the end of the day has created a thread that is beneficial for any high school athlete to read. (But also not to take to heart, as everything here are peoples opinions)

    Quote comment
  • nc-blogger User since:
    Sep 12th, 2014
    Posts: 618
    thumbs_up 10
    Report    REPLY #26 

    NC Blogger said 1 year ago

    Outstanding blog by Jeremy Rae on the sidebar. Certainly worth the read if this debate interests you.

    Also, great document (link included on Rae's blog) by Trent Stellingwerf that every HS athlete should read if they are considering attending a US school. Thanks Jeremy (and Trent).

    This post was edited by NC Blogger 1 year ago . 
    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #27 

    EastAnon said 1 year ago

    Quoting: runningok
    "Just a question:
    I went to a CIS school, often refereed to as a Top 8 school nationally and mentioned in the above posts as being a top school.

    We met as a team 3 times a week to train.. 2 Workouts, 1 long run. Is this standard for other CIS schools? This allowed us to have easy runs on our own schedule.

    How many times a week do CIS schools meet to practice per week vs an NCAA school? Are there easy runs a scheduled time together or alone? Amanda made it seem like at Duke, the team meets every day 3pm-6/7pm."


    I think that's pretty norm. We also meet as a team 2-3 times a week for workouts, depending on the time in the school year, and then organize runs with our teammates whenever works with our schedules.

    Quote comment
  • runfan User since:
    Jan 4th, 2015
    Posts: 91
    thumbs_up 7
    Report    REPLY #28 

    runfan said 1 year ago

    Quoting: Maxine Gravina
    "Hi everyone,

    First off I’d like to apologize if I’ve offended anyone with my documentary, that was not my intention. I am in my fourth year of the multimedia/communications program at McMaster University, and this year I was required to complete a thesis project. My project could be on anything, all my professor asked was that I pick a topic I was interested in and to create something that would get a conversation going. The topic I chose was collegiate athletics, and being a high school and varsity runner, I wanted to get a better understanding of why some young Canadians coming out of high school wanted to go to school in the United States and compete in the NCAA, and to compare the CIS and NCAA as these are the two major options for a young Canadian athlete making their post secondary decision.

    Of course this documentary will be a little bias, I am a CIS athlete but my intention was not to say the CIS was better than the NCAA. If you watch my whole documentary you will see I state you cannot compare the two organizations, that they are too culturally different to compare.

    The learning experience; tremendous. I learned a lot about both organizations, met some great people (including people I didn’t get to interview), and learned a lot about making a documentary. I agree with what most are saying, I should have interviewed at least one current successful Canadian competing in the NCAA system (Justyn Knight, Evelyne Guay, Rob Denault, Andre De Grasse, Erin Teschuk, etc.) but as I said before I this was a learning experience.

    My thesis was approved by the McMaster Research Ethics Board in mid-january, what did this mean? I only had 6 weeks to film, and 4 weeks to edit my documentary. Until my thesis was approved I was also not allowed to contact anyone before to see if they were interested in being interviewed for my project. January and February were not the ideal times to film aswell, as everyone knows this is a big time for training, racing, and school, meaning my participants times for interviews were limited. Not only was my participants time limited, but mine was as well. At the time I was working on my thesis I was also enrolled in two other university courses, working a part time job, and getting regular physio treatment for an injury I’ve been dealing with the past year.

    The participants I picked to interview were all geographically close to Hamilton where I attend school and live. Western and Toronto made travelling less expensive and gave myself more time to work on the project. Thinking back I could have attempted to contact current Canadian NCAA athletes but I’m not sure if we would have been able to set a time and meeting place that didn’t involve travel money or a busy schedule.

    There were also previous NCAA Canadian athletes I wanted to interview originally who had competed in the NCAA and had successful careers, but respecting there wishes they were not interviewed. I’d also like to point out Amanda and Hwang enjoyed their NCAA experiences and stated that in the documentary.

    I had a lot of respect for my participants, speaking out on an opinion piece puts one in a state of vulnerability as we’ve seen in the comment thread. Defending my teammate Connor, when he was speaking about being 12th in Canada and that ranking transferring lower in the NCAA, it was not meant to say he stayed in Canada to be one of the top runners. Connor was explaining how there is a larger population in the US with many athletes running those times.

    In conclusion I was very happy with how my project turned out. I apologize again to anyone I have offended, my intention was for my film to be a piece that a young Canadian could use that was struggling with this decision coming out of high school, someone that is not sure who to turn to and know that this is a difficult decision but either way they are in good hands. They need to understand how big of a decision this is not only for there athletics, but more importantly their academics. These are some of the most important years of our life and the experience we have at a post secondary institution is something that will stick with us later on in life, and shape who we are as individuals.

    If you take a look at who represented team Canada at the international level in the past year, we can see there are individuals from both the NCAA and the CIS which have shined. You can become successful and reach your maximum potential in either.

    If I revisit this project in the future I will try and make the project less bias, but for now happy running and enjoy your outdoor seasons."


    Excellent video. I would add that there are many NCAA schools and the track programs at each may vary widely. In my opinion the CIS has many opportunities to run for great schools - Queen's, Guelph, Mac, U of T, Western, McGill, Laval, UBC, Vic, and on and on. I don't mean to leave anybody out. My focus was academics first and track was a lesser priority, and I wouldn't try to convince anybody to go CIS or NCAA - they will do what they want anyway. CIS worked well for my circumstances. I can see NCAA working for somebody else's.

    Quote comment
  • radioactive-rabbit User since:
    Feb 23rd, 2016
    Posts: 34
    thumbs_up 8
    Report    REPLY #29 

    Radioactive Rabbit said 1 year ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "https://jeremyrae.com/2016/04/21/cis-vs-ncaa-a-more-balanced-perspective/"


    LOL this is not a more balanced perspective. Running for Speed River is not the same as actually attending Guelph and running and taking classes. If anything, it is very biased towards the NCAA. He doesn't so much as provide an alternate view, but rips apart whichever points was easiest for him to counter. Nice try though.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #30 

    sprintman said 1 year ago

    for sprinters it's a no brainer.
    what's the OUA record for 100m and 200m

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 5
    Report    REPLY #31 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Quoting: EastAnon
    "I think that's pretty norm. We also meet as a team 2-3 times a week for workouts, depending on the time in the school year, and then organize runs with our teammates whenever works with our schedules."


    I know other CIS schools meet significantly more, for instance guelph meets 7 days a week including on weekends...

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 4
    Report    REPLY #32 

    gryph alum said 1 year ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "I know other CIS schools meet significantly more, for instance guelph meets 7 days a week including on weekends..."


    Sort of, unless things have changed drastically.

    The distance crew had 3 "hard" practices a week, plus a long run on Sunday where attendance was mandatory (unless you have class). Most people met up for easy doubles on the other days at a regular time, but you were free to run whenever (but it was expected that you double).

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #33 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "I know other CIS schools meet significantly more, for instance guelph meets 7 days a week including on weekends..."


    Maybe you should have gone to one of those schools. Ther you likely would have learned that in order to meet 7 days a week it would have to have included weekends. In fact, would have included both days on the weekend. It's the new math.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #34 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Perhaps there are differences in experiences and/or issues between men and women during their NCAA career.

    Quote comment
  • ron-daniels User since:
    Nov 15th, 2015
    Posts: 5
    thumbs_up 12
    Report    REPLY #35 

    Ron Daniels said 1 year ago

    We watched this documentary and enjoyed it immensely. It covered many of the factors that were considered by our son last fall as he considered offers from either side of the border.

    I don't think it's right to consider "better or worse" for something so personal as a life-path choice between two somewhat different systems. It's more of matter of "better for me" or "worse for me" on a case by case basis.

    Certainly, when the door opened to the NCAA for Joey, it was pretty overwhelming. 1400+ Division 1 schools, hundreds of very good track programs. There certainly appears to be programs that varied from "track with a side of schooling" to "great track/good schooling" to "School first, track second".

    It was a steep learning curve!

    We were in the fortunate position that Joey's marks and strong athletic performance allowed him to consider only the top options. His final four (three US, one Canadian) were all excellent institutions in their own way. There was no bad choice.

    Had his marks been 10% lower and/or his performance been 1/4 second slower, or if we were unable to pay the costs of going to school without a full scholarship, we would have had a much more complex decision on our hands.

    I don't know if this applies to everyone making this decision, but this is how we saw it.

    Reputable Canadian universities are a safe choice, in terms of quality of education and, equally important, recognition of the resulting degree here in Canada..

    Some also have very strong track programs, and are currently training some of Canada's top track athletes.

    The NCAA definitely has a higher number of world class competitors for the kids who are aiming for the Olympics and beyond. Afterall, there are 10 times the number of kids in any given age group in the US, plus they draw from the Caribbean, Europe and Canada - but... depending on your conference, you'll likely only see this very high level of competition if you can perform well enough to get past the elimination meets and get to the regional and national meets.

    NCAA Scholarships are worth a lot of money, but the out-of-state tuitions are so high that most of it is a "money-go-round". They give you money. You give it right back. Many partial scholarships wind up more costly than an unassisted in-province education at an institution with equal or better educational standards.

    Don't judge a Scholarship's financial impact on the dollar value of the deal. Judge it's actual cash value on how much less you pay vs sending your kid to live in residence at U of G, or Western. If a year at Western costs you $19600, then that's the actual cash value of a FULL RIDE scholarship even if the numbers says it's well over twice that.

    Cultural fit is important. Even if the "checklist" items all match up, if your kid feels like a fish out of water due to cultural differences, they're likely to be lonely or homesick, and under-perform both athletically and academically. There are regional cultural differences in the US that can make it feel like Ottawa or a very foreign country to a Canadian kid.

    My final advise would be to coach your kid to make the choice that will result in the best life for your kid. The security of a Law Degree from Harvard is great, but so is the life experience of having donned your country's flag and competed with everything you've got at the Olympics.

    In this house, we like to believe that it doesn't have to be a choice between one or the other, but if tough choices have to be made, be true to your heart while balancing your dreams with the reality of your own competencies. What choice will... realistically... be best for you?

    Did our kid make the best choice by heading to the NCAA? We certainly think he made the wisest choice he could with the informational available to him.

    But.... we won't know for sure for at least 4 years!

    This post was edited by Ron Daniels 1 year ago . 
    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #36 

    Wadewat said 1 year ago

    Very very few Canadians will even have the option to compete in the NCAA and a very elite few will receive a full scholarship to do it. If you have the ability and option to compete against the best in the world...head to D1. It wont be easy but if you are serious about track and succeeding it is the only choice. Just look at the RIO qualifiers and see where they were educated for proof.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 4
    Report    REPLY #37 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Quoting: Wadewat
    "Very very few Canadians will even have the option to compete in$:50 the NCAA and a very elite few will receive a full scholarship to do it.."


    So not true on the female side. If you can run 4:50 or so for 1500m (a solid but not exceptional time for a HS girl), you can find yourself a full ride somewhere in the US. True it won't be a full ride at a D1 Power Conference school, but there are a lot of 2nd or 3rd tier D1 schools, D2 schools, and NAIA schools that need female track athletes to balance the gender numbers due to their football programs.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #38 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "So not true on the female side. If you can run 4:50 or so for 1500m (a solid but not exceptional time for a HS girl), you can find yourself a full ride somewhere in the US. True it won't be a full ride at a D1 Power Conference school, but there are a lot of 2nd or 3rd tier D1 schools, D2 schools, and NAIA schools that need female track athletes to balance the gender numbers due to their football programs."


    Yes boys have to far 'outperform' the girls in order to get anything close to what options the girls have in the u.s. So many closer to average ability girls will also have the option of american school scholarships, whereas only the top boys do. Another thing to take into consideration.

    Quote comment
  • buddy User since:
    Jun 8th, 2015
    Posts: 929
    thumbs_up 10
    Report    REPLY #39 

    Buddy said 1 year ago

    A little cut/paste here from the Rio thread just for anybody reading this in the future or if Maxine comes back for a look.

    70% of our Rio team came up through the US system, the other 30% considered NCAA at one time
    ___________________________________________________________________________


    of the 65 athletes selected, 35 either currently attend or have graduated from an American collegiate institution:

    Tim Nedow, Angela Whyte, Sage Watson, Briane Theison-Eaton, Erin teschuk, Hilary Stellingwerff, Nicole Sifuentes, Brendan Rodney, Jessica O’connell, Alysha Newman, Christabel Nettey, Taylor Milne, Brandon McBride, Lanni Marchant, Matt Hughes, Derek Drouin, Andre De Grasse, Chanice Chase, Johnathan Cabral, Aaron Brown, Nathan Brannen, Shawn Barber, Mobolade Ajomale, Mo Ahmed, Kelsie Ahbe, Kendra Clarke, Phylicia George, Nikkita Holder, Akeem Haynes, Marissa Kurtimah, Chris Winter, Anicka Newell , Micha Powell, Taryn Suttie, Alyxandria Treasure

    6 competed in the American NAIA system for UBC: Lucas Bruchet, Ben Thorne, Evan Dunfee , Inaki Gomez, Elizabeth Gleadle, Mike Mason

    3 have attended NCAA institutions prior to competing in the CIS: Brittany Crew, Anthony Romaniw, Andrea Secaffien

    In total 44 of the 65 olympians (almost 70%!) have gone through the american collegiate system in their development, which makes Peter Erickson's claim of the large contingent being 'the result of a very good development program' from AC even more disingenuous!

    Quote comment
  • nbarunner User since:
    Dec 11th, 2013
    Posts: 29
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #40 

    nbarunner said 1 year ago

    Quoting: 1992ofsaa
    "Another 'Anonymous' retard trolling.

    No I didn't major in Ufology. I chose to stay in Canada and studied medicine and became a licensed practicing physician. I also studied computers and started an internet business that has secured my financial future.

    Did I make the right decision of staying in the CIS and concentrating on my education? You bet I did. I continued to run and race in the OUAA and CIAU, but on my terms and when I wanted to.

    Had I gone to the NCAA, my grades/studies would have taken a back seat to endless mileage, races and pressures from the University paying my over-priced tuition. No thanks.

    All for what? To run some fast times, get some medals and then what? What job could I get with those things?

    Yes Sully did a B.Eng,, but he has stated that he never used it. He is working as a running coach back at the same school he was a runner at.

    I stand by what I said. The vast majority of Canucks that went down to the NCAA took easy, useless courses, on route to a worthless B.A., so they could concentrate solely on their sport. Which is essentially all the NCAA is. A sport factory, that just processes athletes on an assembly line, to help the coaches earn fat salaries.

    The statistics for NCAA athletes graduating is horrendous . . . and when you look at the stats based on race (black vs white), they are beyond appalling. Runners are actually not that bad, but you should look at the stats for football and basketball players. Yikes!

    Want a good education and career after the running days are over? Stay in the CIS, run on your own terms and concentrate on your education.

    Want to piss off your education in search of some undergrad running glory? Go down to the NCAA and do nothing but run, run and run.

    Excellent documentary by the way. Very happy to see so many great Canadian runners staying in the great white north. Some of them are doing superb as CD said about CPT and RP."


    Ok "1992 OFSAA" some of your comments really rub me the wrong way. You are obviously CIS biased and one of the biggest trolls on this whole forum. I highly doubt you were ever fast enough to even consider going to the NCAA so I don't think it is fair for you to make false accusations about them. Many NCAA schools have great academic reputations such as; Notre Dame, Michigan, Duke, Ive League schools etc. . I think in my opinion if you're sub 8:25 or sub 3:55 or sub 14:45 then you should definitely go south, the pros outweigh the cons and you get all of your education paid for. The NCAA is a once in lifetime opportunity;y and the resources and facilities that are offered are phenomenal. The competition is also second to none, you're running against the best college athletes in the world.

    Quote comment
  • buddy User since:
    Jun 8th, 2015
    Posts: 929
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #41 

    Buddy said 1 year ago

    How many Canadian Schools take road trips down south to get ready for their own championship races? Answer = many!

    How many times has Stafford gone south to race and look where she is now?
    Guelph does it all the time.
    Those who don't go NCAA still want to test themselves AGAINST the NCAA kids don't they?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #42 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Whoever said that NCAA schools don't make kids take classes is kinda short sighted. Track is not football. If you look at NCAA rosters the majority will be taking a science based major. Track is pretty easy to manage academics wise and a lot of NCAA athletic departments keep it around as an overall GPA booster. In addition, you also increasing your job opportunities by a multiple of about 5 by going south. By going to an American school you get an easy path to American jobs, which is a pretty good deal especially with the job climate of Canada these days.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #43 

    Anonymous said 1 year ago

    Quoting: Buddy
    "A little cut/paste here from the Rio thread just for anybody reading this in the future or if Maxine comes back for a look.

    70% of our Rio team came up through the US system, the other 30% considered NCAA at one time
    ___________________________________________________________________________


    of the 65 athletes selected, 35 either currently attend or have graduated from an American collegiate institution:

    Tim Nedow, Angela Whyte, Sage Watson, Briane Theison-Eaton, Erin teschuk, Hilary Stellingwerff, Nicole Sifuentes, Brendan Rodney, Jessica O’connell, Alysha Newman, Christabel Nettey, Taylor Milne, Brandon McBride, Lanni Marchant, Matt Hughes, Derek Drouin, Andre De Grasse, Chanice Chase, Johnathan Cabral, Aaron Brown, Nathan Brannen, Shawn Barber, Mobolade Ajomale, Mo Ahmed, Kelsie Ahbe, Kendra Clarke, Phylicia George, Nikkita Holder, Akeem Haynes, Marissa Kurtimah, Chris Winter, Anicka Newell , Micha Powell, Taryn Suttie, Alyxandria Treasure

    6 competed in the American NAIA system for UBC: Lucas Bruchet, Ben Thorne, Evan Dunfee , Inaki Gomez, Elizabeth Gleadle, Mike Mason

    3 have attended NCAA institutions prior to competing in the CIS: Brittany Crew, Anthony Romaniw, Andrea Secaffien

    In total 44 of the 65 olympians (almost 70%!) have gone through the american collegiate system in their development, which makes Peter Erickson's claim of the large contingent being 'the result of a very good development program' from AC even more disingenuous!"


    I heard the announcer say today that 7 of the Canadian Track and Field Athletes are right from Speed River.

    Quote comment
  • bestcoach User since:
    Oct 20th, 2014
    Posts: 1012
    thumbs_up 8
    Report    REPLY #44 

    BestCoach said 9 months ago

    All things being equal, if you are a MD/LD athlete I would say go where they have the best lap counters.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #45 

    anon said 9 months ago

    I have ran for both CIS and NCAA. CIS is a joke compared to the NCAA, CIS gets no respect outside its own community and even then its the same top 5 runners every championship and then everyone is....everyone else. NCAA treatment of athletes and respect in the community, school and sport is way higher in the US and you are actually appreciated for all the work you put into the sport. My experience with CIS has been worse then the NCAA by far.

    Quote comment
  • bestcoach User since:
    Oct 20th, 2014
    Posts: 1012
    thumbs_up 7
    Report    REPLY #46 

    BestCoach said 9 months ago

    Yah but what was your final mark in English?
    Did the NCAA teach you how to read and write :)

    Quoting: anon
    "I have ran for both CIS and NCAA. CIS is a joke compared to the NCAA, CIS gets no respect outside its own community and even then its the same top 5 runners every championship and then everyone is....everyone else. NCAA treatment of athletes and respect in the community, school and sport is way higher in the US and you are actually appreciated for all the work you put into the sport. My experience with CIS has been worse then the NCAA by far."

    This post was edited by BestCoach 9 months ago . 
    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 5
    Report    REPLY #47 

    Anonymous said 9 months ago

    Quoting: anon
    "even then its the same top 5 runners every championship and then everyone is....everyone else. "


    As opposed to the championships being won by Edward Cheserek or Edward Cheserek with an occasional win by Edward Cheserek?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #48 

    Anonymous said 9 months ago

    Quoting: anon
    "I have ran for both CIS and NCAA. CIS is a joke compared to the NCAA, CIS gets no respect outside its own community and even then its the same top 5 runners every championship and then everyone is....everyone else. NCAA treatment of athletes and respect in the community, school and sport is way higher in the US and you are actually appreciated for all the work you put into the sport. My experience with CIS has been worse then the NCAA by far."


    It is best to start a new thread on this topic. As you can see by the responses you received, the Trolls are still out there claiming you as Fake News. This is a recurring topic that some are obsessed about and will rehash it time after time.
    I have a daughter in D1 and also know most of her friends in schools other than NCAA who are doing well in T & f and academically.. Simply look at the dates some comments are made and peruse the "archival records". And do not feel bad about being/remaining anonymous as some of the posters only have cute usernames but who are also anonymous really.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #49 

    Anonymous said 9 months ago

    Gotta think that if you're fast enough to get a full ride at a reputable school down south so that your degree means something and will be recognized should you decide to come back home to work in Canada once you're finished school then by all means go for it.

    But if you're only fast enough to get a partial and it's at a school that's not well known academically, then I question why you would go down there. Ultimately this is about getting an education that will allow you to earn a living isn't it? If so, you're probably better off in the CIS earning a degree known by Canadian job recruiters. And being part of a CIS XC or T&F team should give you a leg up on others with similar qualifications competing for the same jobs.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #50 

    Ron MacLean's dog said 9 months ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Gotta think that if you're fast enough to get a full ride at a reputable school down south so that your degree means something and will be recognized should you decide to come back home to work in Canada once you're finished school then by all means go for it.

    But if you're only fast enough to get a partial and it's at a school that's not well known academically, then I question why you would go down there. Ultimately this is about getting an education that will allow you to earn a living isn't it? If so, you're probably better off in the CIS earning a degree known by Canadian job recruiters. And being part of a CIS XC or T&F team should give you a leg up on others with similar qualifications competing for the same jobs."


    Bingo. I quietly despair when a young athlete takes a partial scholarship at Bad Breath State, essentially just so his or her parents can boast that junior has an athletic scholarship.

    By all means, if an academically reputable U.S. university comes a-calling, it's worth considering but otherwise Canadian universities are, for most, a better option.

    Quote comment
  • bear-scout User since:
    Nov 4th, 2016
    Posts: 51
    thumbs_up 9
    Report    REPLY #51 

    Bear Scout said 9 months ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "But if you're only fast enough to get a partial and it's at a school that's not well known academically, then I question why you would go down there. Ultimately this is about getting an education that will allow you to earn a living isn't it? If so, you're probably better off in the CIS earning a degree known by Canadian job recruiters. And being part of a CIS XC or T&F team should give you a leg up on others with similar qualifications competing for the same jobs."


    Bruh, I've been pretending to be a bear on this site for months, and even I think you haven't thought this thing through. It's clear this is an opinion based on speculation.
    Fun fact of the day: American university, no what how small or...um.... "obscure"(?), offer the same degrees as Canadian universities. Yes, a certain degree from one school might be better than the other, but all you usually need is to get your foot in the door in the job-hunting process, then you have to physically talk to the recruiter, and by then where you went to school will matter as much as what kind of berries you ate in the morning.
    A kid might want to go to a smaller US school because of the experience of moving to and getting an education from another country. Plus, it can make you stand out, because it's not everyday a Canadian recruiter gets an applicant who took the initiative to take the path less travelled. Why would you try to degrade someone for choosing that?
    I've personally had the privilege of attending both a smaller/"obscure" US school and one of the largest schools in Canada, and there are pros and cons to both in terms of athletics and academics (although in the context of job-hunting, I found that, by far, my US experience/education was what made me attractive to employees since my field is so competitive and it helped me stand out, although I'm sure this doesn't apply to everyone reading this).
    Ultimately, a kid should choose the option that best fits their needs, academically, financially, and athletically. Anyone who has a strong one-sided opinion on this issue is doing a disservice to the high-school kids reading these forums.

    This post was edited by Bear Scout 9 months ago . 
    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #52 

    Anonymous said 9 months ago

    Quoting: Bear Scout
    "Bruh, I've been pretending to be a bear on this site for months, and even I think you haven't thought this thing through. It's clear this is an opinion based on speculation.
    Fun fact of the day: American university, no what how small or...um.... "obscure"(?), offer the same degrees as Canadian universities. Yes, a certain degree from one school might be better than the other, but all you usually need is to get your foot in the door in the job-hunting process, then you have to physically talk to the recruiter, and by then where you went to school will matter as much as what kind of berries you ate in the morning.
    A kid might want to go to a smaller US school because of the experience of moving to and getting an education from another country. Plus, it can make you stand out, because it's not everyday a Canadian recruiter gets an applicant who took the initiative to take the path less travelled. Why would you try to degrade someone for choosing that?
    I've personally had the privilege of attending both a smaller/"obscure" US school and one of the largest schools in Canada, and there are pros and cons to both in terms of athletics and academics (although in the context of job-hunting, I found that, by far, my US experience/education was what made me attractive to employees since my field is so competitive and it helped me stand out, although I'm sure this doesn't apply to everyone reading this).
    Ultimately, a kid should choose the option that best fits their needs, academically, financially, and athletically. Anyone who has a strong one-sided opinion on this issue is doing a disservice to the high-school kids reading these forums."


    I don't have a strong opinion either way. It's just that I find it hard to believe that someone with a degree from Coastal Carolina University has as good a chance of getting an interview with a recruiter in Ontario with the same degree from Queen's, Western or U of T for example. Recruiters know what they know and they don't know Random U from the U.S. Obviously, you're the exception to what I'm saying. My comments were never meant to be absolute. Just talking about what gives you the best chance to be successful after school.

    I've also heard that certain degrees from the U.S. don't "convert" up in Canada in that you'll have to take extra courses to be compatible with Canadian standards (although you're probably fine if you're just looking for a liberal arts degree..)

    This post was edited by a Moderator [Issues] 9 months ago . 
    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #53 

    CISvsNCAA said 8 months ago

    look at what has happened to our greatest athletes that have made their way down to the nCAA system.

    seems to be that NCAA is a tough place to make it, you either make it or you don't.

    This post was edited by a Moderator [Issues] 8 months ago . 
    Quote comment
  • bestcoach User since:
    Oct 20th, 2014
    Posts: 1012
    thumbs_up 4
    Report    REPLY #54 

    BestCoach said 8 months ago

    Many of our best LD runners who do go south end up working for Johnny S.
    He will accept your degree.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #55 

    Anonymous said 8 months ago

    Quoting: BestCoach
    "Many of our best LD runners who do go south end up working for Johnny S.
    He will accept your degree.

    "

    I don't see your name as an accredited instructor at any of the locations.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #56 

    Anonymous said 8 months ago

    The NCAA is more competitive than the CIS by a weird amount

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #57 

    Anonymous said 8 months ago

    Whoever narrated this has the sexiest voice I have ever heard in my whole damn life.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #58 

    Anonymous said 8 months ago

    Late to the party....but Rae really can't compare the two systems at all. Until you have been in both AND in more than two, you really don't know. Do I? Nope. How could I if I haven't been in multiple schools on both sides. That is really the takeaway from all of it. Actually, ND and is PolySci degree...doesn't really matter the name of the university....program counts more than anything.

    Quote comment
  • caymantan User since:
    Jan 25th, 2015
    Posts: 42
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #59 

    Caymantan said 8 months ago

    Having a daughter who is currently on scholarship in the US (soccer) and a wife who had a full ride down south (track) and came back to do her Master's in Canada I would say the NCAA experience is better as long as you are not attending some U of Ricky Bobby. It has to be a reputable university unless you want to stay and live in the US or come back and upgrade. My wife had no issues with the Canadian University accepting her undergrad degree.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #60 

    Anonymous said 7 months ago

    So, are you a future Division I athlete?

    For each sport, the requirements to play at the Division I level are a little different. Check out our sports-specific pages to get into the details. However, there are a few keys factors that might indicate you’re destined to fulfill your DI dreams. How many of these boxes do you check off?

    They are the best on their team and attract genuine attention from DI coaches before their junior year.
    No coach can afford to waste that level of talent. Straight up: Almost every DI recruit is a starter on their high school team. Having been mastering the game from a young age, Division I athletes tend to attract a lot of real college coach interest early on—well before their junior year of high school.

    Where do you stack up? If you’ve been a starter since before you can remember, that’s a good sign. Bear in mind, that not all high school teams are created equal, so also consider if you’re getting recruited heavily by many DI coaches before your junior year. Top athletes tend to receive verbal offers their sophomore year or early junior year.

    At the end of your junior year with no offers? You need to be exploring and communicating with schools outside of Division I. If playing your sport in college is your goal, take recruiting seriously with Division II, Division III and NAIA schools. A lot of student-athletes make the mistake of putting all their eggs in the Division I basket. Then, they miss out on playing because they don’t follow up with schools that fail to “meet their standards.” Maybe you just don’t have the skill level to play at the DI level or you fell through the cracks in the recruiting process. But that doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t play your sport in college.

    DI athletes have been better than high schoolers—since they were 12.
    Dr. Jay Granat, a Ph.D. psychotherapist and founder of StayInTheZone.com, explains that most elite athletes will really start to stand out from their peers around age 12. In many cases, they can beat 16-year-olds! They also tend to overall be bigger and stronger than other kids their age.

    Where do you stack up? Have you always stood head and shoulders above your teammates (no pun intended)? Are you constantly playing above your grade level, just to face some actual competition? While athletes can be “late bloomers,” being more athletic than your peers from a young age is a significant sign you’re on the right path.

    Athletes have the body build required for that sport.
    This sounds like a no-brainer, but it is a key factor. Division I athletes just have the right body build for their position. Look at women’s gymnastics for example. 78% of top gymnasts are around 5 feet tall (give or take 3 inches), and are around 103 pounds. Someone who doesn’t have this build is going to find it much more difficult to compete at a high level.

    Where do you stack up? Do your research and see what the general DI body build requirements are for someone at your position. Remember, if you don’t meet those standards, a high level of skill or knowledge of the game might make up for it. Think Isaiah Thomas or Russell Wilson.

    The bottom line: Find a college athletic program that’s right for you—and it may not be at a Division I school. If you’re interested in tough competition, look no further than DII schools. If you want to play your sport against excellent athletes and have some time left over to focus on academics, look at DIII or NAIA.

    Quote comment
  • bestcoach User since:
    Oct 20th, 2014
    Posts: 1012
    thumbs_up 2
    Report    REPLY #61 

    BestCoach said 6 months ago

    The average scholarship is $10,400 (average cost for school is $22,000-$44,000)

    Only the top 1% of highschool kids are "discovered"
    Only 2% of highschool athletes receive scholarships
    700,000 girls are competing for 4500 scholarships in T&F
    60% of NCAA athletes receive no financial aid
    True "Full ride" are only available in football, basketball, tennis, gymnastics and women's volleyball



    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #62 

    Anonymous said 6 months ago

    Quoting: BestCoach
    "The average scholarship is $10,400 (average cost for school is $22,000-$44,000)

    Only the top 1% of highschool kids are "discovered"
    Only 2% of highschool athletes receive scholarships
    700,000 girls are competing for 4500 scholarships in T&F
    60% of NCAA athletes receive no financial aid
    True "Full ride" are only available in football, basketball, tennis, gymnastics and women's volleyball



    "




    I went to a D2 and received a full ride. They exist, maybe not at a top tier D1 school for you or your child, but they are there.

    Quote comment
  • el-hefe User since:
    Oct 16th, 2016
    Posts: 164
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #63 

    El Hefe said 6 months ago

    Quoting: BestCoach
    "The average scholarship is $10,400 (average cost for school is $22,000-$44,000)

    Only the top 1% of highschool kids are "discovered"
    Only 2% of highschool athletes receive scholarships
    700,000 girls are competing for 4500 scholarships in T&F
    60% of NCAA athletes receive no financial aid
    True "Full ride" are only available in football, basketball, tennis, gymnastics and women's volleyball



    "


    Very true. The numbers are clear that full rides are extremely rare. Just because your friend's or fellow athletes tell you they received a full ride they could be exaggerating (aka. lying).

    Your price range is low it's more like $30000 to $50000 US and that does not include room and board, medical insurance and flying home 3 times a year.

    There is a reason that UBC is scooping up some amazing athletes of late which is economics. UBC costs $11000 so that $5000 scholarship goes along way.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #64 

    guyusofunny said 6 months ago

    you sir are full of bologna
    get your mom, dad and osap to back this up.

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "I went to a D2 and received a full ride. They exist, maybe not at a top tier D1 school for you or your child, but they are there."

    Quote comment
  • caymantan User since:
    Jan 25th, 2015
    Posts: 42
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #65 

    Caymantan said 6 months ago

    You can add women's soccer to the "Full Ride" category as my daughter is on a full ride down south.

    Quote comment
  • bestcoach User since:
    Oct 20th, 2014
    Posts: 1012
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #66 

    BestCoach said 6 months ago

    we're not all using the same definition of "full ride"

    Quote comment
  • caymantan User since:
    Jan 25th, 2015
    Posts: 42
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #67 

    Caymantan said 6 months ago

    So the full ride in our daughter's case, tuition ($35K US) is covered as is medical insurance. She is given $1500 US/month to pay for room and board. As she shares a house with the other members of her team, she has $500/month remaining every month. She saves this to come home 3 times/year and go shopping (ugh!!!!). Pretty sweet deal if you can keep healthy and perform at the top level. It goes both ways, if you don't perform your scholarship is decreased the next year or worst case scenario you are cut from the team. We have witnessed this over her 3 years to date.

    Quote comment
  • bear-scout User since:
    Nov 4th, 2016
    Posts: 51
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #68 

    Bear Scout said 6 months ago

    Quoting: BestCoach
    True "Full ride" are only available in football, basketball, tennis, gymnastics and women's volleyball
    "


    I assume you are talking strictly athletic scholarships. Regardless, I can say from my personal experience that this is false. They do exist for track, although not that often. And normally they get the full ride a couple years into the program (not right out the gate), when you have proven your worth. Scholarships are year-to-year.

    Quoting: BestCoach
    700,000 girls are competing for 4500 scholarships in T&F
    60% of NCAA athletes receive no financial aid
    "


    Yeah, but 60% of NCAA athletes are in-state kids who still compete in their sport past high-school for no financial reward. The 60% are slower than any "above-average" Canadian high-schooler

    It's been a couple of years so I hope someone can confirm something: I remember there being a rule where Track is one of the few NCAA sports that are allowed to offer partial-athletic scholarships and divide as they please to get a total of 12.6 or some set number. Am I mis-remembering that?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #69 

    Anonymous said 6 months ago

    How about books & food? some add this in on the "full ride"

    Quoting: Caymantan
    "So the full ride in our daughter's case, tuition ($35K US) is covered as is medical insurance. She is given $1500 US/month to pay for room and board. As she shares a house with the other members of her team, she has $500/month remaining every month. She saves this to come home 3 times/year and go shopping (ugh!!!!). Pretty sweet deal if you can keep healthy and perform at the top level. It goes both ways, if you don't perform your scholarship is decreased the next year or worst case scenario you are cut from the team. We have witnessed this over her 3 years to date."

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #70 

    Anonymous said 6 months ago

    Quoting: BestCoach
    "we're not all using the same definition of "full ride""


    How good is your math ??

    75% athletic + 25% academic = ____________% ??

    or does it have to be 100% athletic ?

    Quote comment
  • bestcoach User since:
    Oct 20th, 2014
    Posts: 1012
    thumbs_up 0
    Report    REPLY #71 

    BestCoach said 6 months ago

    I know of at least 1 GTA coach promising D1 scholarships to kids who don't even qualify for ofsaa-regional

    Quote comment
  • caymantan User since:
    Jan 25th, 2015
    Posts: 42
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #72 

    Caymantan said 6 months ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    ""


    My apologies, books are included as part of her tuition and the food and rent comes out of the $1500/month - she still has $500 leftover at month end.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #73 

    Anonymous said 6 months ago

    Quoting: guyusofunny
    ""



    Nope, full ride. Thomas Toth and I attended Cameron University. You can Facebook me if you have any questions.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 3
    Report    REPLY #74 

    Anonymous said 6 months ago

    "In the end, I didn't want of go to Stanford."
    -Gabriella Stafford

    That may be the first time in history someone has not wanted to attend Stanford.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 40361
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #75 

    Ron MacLean's dog said 6 months ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    ""In the end, I didn't want of go to Stanford."
    -Gabriella Stafford

    That may be the first time in history someone has not wanted to attend Stanford."


    Stanford is not all it's cracked up to be - there are some very impressive students there but also a lot of mediocre rich kids. It's hard to get into but its undergraduate education is nothing special.

    At the end of the day, Stanford needed Gabriela, Gabriela didn't need Stanford.

    Quote comment
  • new-post-last-visitmaster2b User since:
    Jun 9th, 2011
    Posts: 131
    thumbs_up 1
    Report    REPLY #76 

    Master2B said 6 months ago

    Having gone to Stanford, for example, and competed in the NCAA does help with post-collegiate distance running if you want to get into fast sections at U.S. & European meets.

    Quote comment
Anonymous

says…    

Quote Underline Italics Bold
Submit Preview

By posting on our forum you are agreeing to the following guidelines.

To help prevent spammers please
enter the two words below.


image-display1

 

Benefits of creating an account!

  • No need to reveal your real name.
  • Quicker to post (no need to enter the "two words" above each time).
  • Gives you the ability to edit your own comments and subscribe to topics.
  • It's free & quick to create an account!
Submit & Create Account

 

Related Videos