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Event Results >>

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Canadian Cross Country Champs

Kingston, ON
November 24th, 2018

Results courtesy Speed River Timing

U18 Girls
U20 Women
Open Women

U18 Boys
U20 Men
Open Men

U18 Womens Provincial Teams 2018
U20 Womens Provincial Teams 2018
Open Womens Provincial Teams 2018

U18 Mens Provincial Teams 2018
U20 Mens Provincial Teams 2018
Open Mens Provincial Teams 2018

Masters Teams 2018
Masters Age Group Results 2018

User Comments

  • anonymous Anonymous
    Posts: 48120
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    Report    REPLY #1 

    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Anyone know why Ontario is not listed as a provincial team?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #2 

    Anon said 2 weeks ago

    Or why so many of the team results don't make sense? Some show scoring 3, some scoring.4. Some cumulative points are same as team score, some teams with fewer points don't correspond to cumulative positions. X-C is supposed to be a team sport but team results do not get proper vetting.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #3 

    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    It's the same story every time this timing company is used LOL it's getting old

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  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
    Posts: 842
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    Meizner said 2 weeks ago

    Yes these results certainly leave something to be desired. No team affiliations or other interesting 'texture'. Disappointing given that I am sure it is simply a 'settings' choice on the software that could easily be enabled.

    Looked like a great race-- some 'real XC' on a stellar course-- best in Canada?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "Yes these results certainly leave something to be desired. No team affiliations or other interesting 'texture'. Disappointing given that I am sure it is simply a 'settings' choice on the software that could easily be enabled.

    Looked like a great race-- some 'real XC' on a stellar course-- best in Canada?"


    Why wouldn't they show the team affiliations for this meet? This is year 4 of Speed River timing doing the results, they should have ironed out any issues by now.

    Quote comment
  • mattnorminton User since:
    Mar 17th, 2015
    Posts: 173
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    Report    REPLY #6 

    mattnorminton said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "Yes these results certainly leave something to be desired. No team affiliations or other interesting 'texture'. Disappointing given that I am sure it is simply a 'settings' choice on the software that could easily be enabled.

    Looked like a great race-- some 'real XC' on a stellar course-- best in Canada?"


    Agree with the results comment, not a lot of info in there!

    And agree on the course, certainly the best “xc championship” course I have seen. A nice mix of real xc running while being spectator friendly, which isn’t always easy to do.

    There is a course in Camrose Alberta that Augustana uses that is very good too. My only criticism there would be the start area is a touch small for bigger races. Travis Cummings has made a pretty good course out in Cochrane too, similar to the Ft Henry course with an incredible view of the mountains in the background. He just needs to get the distance correct!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Names got added after the fact in the individual results changing peoples placement so I am not confident they are accurate either.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #8 

    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    What happened to Sasha Gollish?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #9 

    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "What happened to Sasha Gollish?"



    DNF - fell during the first lap (on the icy corner in the back part of the loop) and got stepped on.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #10 

    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "What happened to Sasha Gollish?"


    DNF after the first lap, due to a twisted ankle.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #11 

    Taxi Driver said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "What happened to Sasha Gollish?"


    It was clear on the feed, there was an irate driver in the parking lot frustrated with the lack of available parking. They were furiously honking their horn and once Sasha rounded the corner just before 2km she had no chance at all... wen't full anaerobic and was never able to recover.

    Quote comment
  • peter-wright User since:
    Nov 14th, 2016
    Posts: 1
    thumbs_up 4
    Report    REPLY #12 

    Peter Wright said 2 weeks ago

    Can anyone explain the team scoring system please. One my athletes finished 46th in U18 men but in team scoring his position is given as 8th - yet I count at least 18 athletes in front of him who were on scoring teams? Thank you

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Looking forward to seeing the final selected senior teams for World Champs/NACAC!

    Quote comment
  • trevor-hofbauer User since:
    Nov 18th, 2014
    Posts: 13
    thumbs_up 15
    Report    REPLY #14 

    Trevor Hofbauer said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: mattnorminton
    "Agree with the results comment, not a lot of info in there!

    And agree on the course, certainly the best “xc championship” course I have seen. A nice mix of real xc running while being spectator friendly, which isn’t always easy to do.

    There is a course in Camrose Alberta that Augustana uses that is very good too. My only criticism there would be the start area is a touch small for bigger races. Travis Cummings has made a pretty good course out in Cochrane too, similar to the Ft Henry course with an incredible view of the mountains in the background. He just needs to get the distance correct!"



    Agreed, the Camrose course is spectacular and I like your thoughts on the Cochrane course too. It can handle the athletes and spectators as Calgary City Champs were held there a couple years ago. Imagine Cochrane hosting ACXC, it would be ELECTRIC!

    Quote comment
  • cummings User since:
    Apr 1st, 2006
    Posts: 149
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    Report    REPLY #15 

    Cummings said 2 weeks ago

    Ok T-Hof and Matt, let's get the bid committee rolling. Nats in Cochrane, after-party at the Texas Gate. Cowboy boots and karaoke after a hard day of racing in the Foothills of the Rockies sounds like a plan. I need to find 150m on that damn course and we are good to go.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #16 

    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Names got added after the fact in the individual results changing peoples placement so I am not confident they are accurate either."


    Possibly due to athletes' bib chips not being recognized when they cross the finish mat (or maybe they veered to the side of the mat) and so were added following video review.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #17 

    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Taxi Driver
    "It was clear on the feed, there was an irate driver in the parking lot frustrated with the lack of available parking. They were furiously honking their horn and once Sasha rounded the corner just before 2km she had no chance at all... wen't full anaerobic and was never able to recover."


    Why is there not more love for this comment?

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #18 

    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Cummings
    "Ok T-Hof and Matt, let's get the bid committee rolling. Nats in Cochrane, after-party at the Texas Gate. Cowboy boots and karaoke after a hard day of racing in the Foothills of the Rockies sounds like a plan. I need to find 150m on that damn course and we are good to go."


    It's XC it doesn't have to be accurate! Let's go! ABXC 2021!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #19 

    Andrew Jones said 2 weeks ago

    "And agree on the course, certainly the best “xc championship” course I have seen. A nice mix of real xc running while being spectator friendly, which isn’t always easy to do."

    Amazing course as said. And so historical -- so Canadian!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Cummings
    "Ok T-Hof and Matt, let's get the bid committee rolling. Nats in Cochrane, after-party at the Texas Gate. Cowboy boots and karaoke after a hard day of racing in the Foothills of the Rockies sounds like a plan. I need to find 150m on that damn course and we are good to go."


    Can you lengthen the start or finishing shoot? Or maybe both by a bit. 150m is real close. i of course have no clue how much wiggle room you have to expand a bit.

    Good Luck!!!!!!!

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Report    REPLY #21 

    Anonymous said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Trevor Hofbauer
    "Agreed, the Camrose course is spectacular and I like your thoughts on the Cochrane course too. It can handle the athletes and spectators as Calgary City Champs were held there a couple years ago. Imagine Cochrane hosting ACXC, it would be ELECTRIC!"


    Indeed, that Cochrane course is a beauty --- flats, hills, great for spectators and a million dollar mountain vista. The proximity to Cochrane and Calgary hotels and YYC (45 minutes) is a plus. A possible downside is the uncertainty of AB weather by late-November. It could be t-shirts; it could be parkas.

    Quote comment
  • runningman User since:
    Feb 23rd, 2018
    Posts: 245
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    Report    REPLY #22 

    Runningman said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Taxi Driver
    "It was clear on the feed, there was an irate driver in the parking lot frustrated with the lack of available parking. They were furiously honking their horn and once Sasha rounded the corner just before 2km she had no chance at all... wen't full anaerobic and was never able to recover."



    OMG......you crack me up. 10/10 comment!!!

    Quote comment
  • runningman User since:
    Feb 23rd, 2018
    Posts: 245
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    Report    REPLY #23 

    Runningman said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Trevor Hofbauer
    "Agreed, the Camrose course is spectacular and I like your thoughts on the Cochrane course too. It can handle the athletes and spectators as Calgary City Champs were held there a couple years ago. Imagine Cochrane hosting ACXC, it would be ELECTRIC!"


    Make a bid for it I would love to see it in a different part of the country

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  • obvious User since:
    Apr 1st, 2007
    Posts: 823
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    Report    REPLY #24 

    Obvious said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Runningman
    "Make a bid for it I would love to see it in a different part of the country"


    In BC the next couple of years and then Ottawa I believe.

    Quote comment
  • mounty User since:
    Sep 26th, 2013
    Posts: 113
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    Report    REPLY #25 

    Mounty said 2 weeks ago

    Quoting: Obvious
    "In BC the next couple of years and then Ottawa I believe."


    Do you have a source for Ottawa being host in 2021? I was able to find a news article about Abbotsford, but nothing beyond that http://athletics.ca/abbotsford-host-2019-2020-cross-country-championships/

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  • obvious User since:
    Apr 1st, 2007
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    Obvious said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Mounty
    "Do you have a source for Ottawa being host in 2021? I was able to find a news article about Abbotsford, but nothing beyond that http://athletics.ca/abbotsford-host-2019-2020-cross-country-championships/"


    Unfortunately no. Second hand unconfirmed. AC has gone to two year cycle (instead of the four that Ktown had).

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  • cummings User since:
    Apr 1st, 2006
    Posts: 149
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    Cummings said 1 week ago

    I will probably need to alter the start a bit (possibly just move it to a different spot, it is on a bit of a turn but it's super wide so not a huge deal). I had another hill I was going to use but getting equipment up on the Ag Grounds course was tough with the early snow. No drastic modifications, she's been tried and tested at ASAA XC Prov's and multiple City Champs. I've got pics on the Cochrane Endurance Project's FB page if anyone wants to take a look. It is a stunning location, on a nice day I am convinced there isn't a better Vista Point for a race in the country (other than maybe Signal Hill in St. John's, Kingston is decent too but as Matt said, the Cochrane course is an Alberta version of the Fort Henry course). I'm not as worried about the venue or weather as I am about people being hesitant about racing at altitude. I don't think it's a big deal; but if you are flatlander and it will be the first time being in YYC, it is a bit of an adjustment. The fears of this are grossly over inflated as Calgary isn't super high, but it has derailed CIS bids before if I am not mistaken. Athletes from the east or from Central Canada who've never been to the Rockies would be wise to come in a few days before just to get used to what fresh mountain air feels like...If you've been here before then you won't know the difference.

    Might be good to discuss this...To be honest, I'd way rather race at moderate altitude any day than in muggy heat in Southern Ontario in the summer, that type of heat is oppressive for Nat's Track. It seemed like when Calgary hosted Nats Track a few years ago it was well received by all event disciplines. I would love to bring a National Championship back to Alberta.

    The Cochrane course is without a doubt capable of hosting a National Scale event, HS Prov's generally require more organization than club events because of the larger scale of bureaucracy involved with the school system (I would say Nats is probably equivalent to or less organization, there are challenges like possible shuttle services from YYC etc that are unique to an AC event, but HS Prov's has its own idiosyncracies as well).

    Thanks for the plug boys...let's get 'er rolling.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Obvious
    "Unfortunately no. Second hand unconfirmed. AC has gone to two year cycle (instead of the four that Ktown had)."


    Did they specify where they thought it might be hosted in Ottawa? Mooney's bay?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    this has probably been asked in previous years, so my apologies.....what is the sheet of paper handed out to the top finishers at #acxc (and how many get it?). Curious why it's done at the finish when everyone is gassed and not later during awards

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  • obvious User since:
    Apr 1st, 2007
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    Obvious said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Did they specify where they thought it might be hosted in Ottawa? Mooney's bay?"


    Given that's where they held OUs a few years ago, that would be a plausible guess.

    But don't quote this as anything definitive.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    I know Gatineau isn't Ottawa, but there are some fantastic real cross country courses in across the river. As much as running on a grassy dump is a hoot, I would love to see more variable ground conditions. Throw in some sand, mud, or even a bit of technical rock section. Why is Canadian cross country races continuously held on golf courses and grassy fields.

    Look at worlds, which has mud sections, 75 m of elevation gain per 2km lap. How are we to prepare to compete on the world level if we don't have more hills and mud.
    https://www.iaaf.org/competitions/iaaf-world-cross-country-championships/news/world-cross-country-aarhus-2019-course

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  • runningman User since:
    Feb 23rd, 2018
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    Report    REPLY #32 

    Runningman said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "I know Gatineau isn't Ottawa, but there are some fantastic real cross country courses in across the river. As much as running on a grassy dump is a hoot, I would love to see more variable ground conditions. Throw in some sand, mud, or even a bit of technical rock section. Why is Canadian cross country races continuously held on golf courses and grassy fields.

    Look at worlds, which has mud sections, 75 m of elevation gain per 2km lap. How are we to prepare to compete on the world level if we don't have more hills and mud.
    https://www.iaaf.org/competitions/iaaf-world-cross-country-championships/news/world-cross-country-aarhus-2019-course"



    It is going to be a beast of a course.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Brings up a good question, what is the most legendary/famous XC course in Canada? Or if not one definite one, then 2 or 3.

    Can think of a few:
    Fort Henry
    Plains of Abraham
    Jericho Beach

    Maybe's:
    Beacon Hill
    Guelph Aboretum
    Thames Valley GC

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  • nc-blogger User since:
    Sep 12th, 2014
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    NC Blogger said 1 week ago

    Trouble with Gatineau Park is a start line area. I hosted an XC event at Camp Fortune for the International Law Enforcement Games that I thought went very well (and we had some great feedback), but there were only 30-35 athletes in the field.

    My knowledge of Gatineau Park is not the best, but the only place I can think off that might be able to pull it off is Mont Bleu, where they host / start the Keskinada Loppet (ski race), although due to the tornadoes that damaged the school they may have to move this year, but most of the trails leading to and from the fields there are paved bike paths.

    This was alluded to in another thread, but there are lots of great trails with tonnes of potential for great runs, but start line areas are the real kicker.

    Quote comment
  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Andrew Jones said 1 week ago

    "This was alluded to in another thread, but there are lots of great trails with tonnes of potential for great runs, but start line areas are the real kicker."

    By requirement of course there has to be a "sorting out" starting straight (no curves or significant narrowing) to avoid carnage, but moreover IMHO there needs to be many sight lines for spectators and media. That's why the Plains and especially Fort Henry are so good as XC venues. In my recollection there has been some talk of bringing World XC to Canada and these two courses usually lead the conversation as to sites. The Victoria/Vancouver venues would also work well, but the cross-Canada journey for most internationalists is a deterrent.

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  • oldster User since:
    Sep 25th, 2013
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    Report    REPLY #36 

    Oldster said 1 week ago

    Quoting: NC Blogger
    "Trouble with Gatineau Park is a start line area. I hosted an XC event at Camp Fortune for the International Law Enforcement Games that I thought went very well (and we had some great feedback), but there were only 30-35 athletes in the field.

    My knowledge of Gatineau Park is not the best, but the only place I can think off that might be able to pull it off is Mont Bleu, where they host / start the Keskinada Loppet (ski race), although due to the tornadoes that damaged the school they may have to move this year, but most of the trails leading to and from the fields there are paved bike paths.

    This was alluded to in another thread, but there are lots of great trails with tonnes of potential for great runs, but start line areas are the real kicker."


    There is much more to consider when looking at venues capable of hosting XC events with 1000+ competitors than the course profile. The running course is definitely the heart of the matter, but things like the staging area, vehicular access to the site (including nearby parking), sight-lines for spectators, and quality of cell phone coverage are all factors too. And, in the case of the AC champs, average weather (and especially chance of major snowfall) in late November is a vital datum. In Ontario, I think it would be folly in the extreme to plan this event north of HWY 7 (Ottawa basically straddles it), especially with the increasing volatility of the weather at this time of year.

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  • kelsall User since:
    Oct 18th, 2010
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    Report    REPLY #37 

    Kelsall said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Brings up a good question, what is the most legendary/famous XC course in Canada? Or if not one definite one, then 2 or 3.

    Can think of a few:
    Fort Henry
    Plains of Abraham
    Jericho Beach

    Maybe's:
    Beacon Hill
    Guelph Aboretum
    Thames Valley GC"


    Facepalm moment: accidentally clicked "report" -- sorry Adam.

    Beacon HIll Park can be pretty solid and has a good history of cross-country running there. There are some good viewing areas and 2017 U Sports were there, however, the City of Victoria is a pain in the ass and they are further handcuffed by the Friends of Beacon Hill Park Society that preside over the usage of the park. Some landowner (I think in the late 1800s or early 1900s - fact check required) bequeathed a small piece of land to the city to be used as part of BHP. In the will they wrote: Shall not be used for commercial activity.

    So the City and the Friends have taken this law to the extreme, for example, if you put on an event in the park, a banner showing a brand is considered "commercial activity" and therefore cannot happen. Wrap your head around that.

    We just liaised with the city multiple times with site visits and many emails, phone calls, renderings of routes etc etc etc etc etc.....and they came back with unreasonable demands. This is for sport = healthy activity with limited commercial viability.

    The morning of U Sport, there was a homeless person with a tent at the one end of the soccer field, probably someone from Edmonton who likes our weather as many are from across Canada - not Victorians, camping in the city. At that time, a person involved with organizing the U Sport Champs told me, "a Park maintenance person said, "too many people have been running on the mowed path leading up."

    So it is okay to leave syringes and illegally camp and leave trash behind, but it is not okay to go for a run in said park that is owned by the people? #Fedup.

    This, for the city with the apparent best recreational environment in all of Canada, with 12 national teams or sports headquartered here and people everywhere, 12 months of the year, running, cycling, stand-up paddleboarding, surfing, etc etc....that's the type of idiotic perspective there is at the city.

    [keep in mind the city pop: 385,000, is made up of 13 municipalities).

    So I just scoped out a route for a certain XC thing that I cannot speak about at this time in one of the other 12 municipalities.

    It is stunning. And they want it with great excitement offering money and full support.

    Add "secret location - Victoria" to your list and scratch BHP.

    Might have to write some scathing account of the City of Victoria (proper). Greater Victoria is still a top-notch recreational hub.

    Quote comment
  • meizner User since:
    Oct 8th, 2013
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    Report    REPLY #38 

    Meizner said 1 week ago

    Quoting: NC Blogger
    "Trouble with Gatineau Park is a start line area. I hosted an XC event at Camp Fortune for the International Law Enforcement Games that I thought went very well (and we had some great feedback), but there were only 30-35 athletes in the field.

    My knowledge of Gatineau Park is not the best, but the only place I can think off that might be able to pull it off is Mont Bleu, where they host / start the Keskinada Loppet (ski race), although due to the tornadoes that damaged the school they may have to move this year, but most of the trails leading to and from the fields there are paved bike paths.

    This was alluded to in another thread, but there are lots of great trails with tonnes of potential for great runs, but start line areas are the real kicker."


    Kirk, I know the park pretty well from skiing/ MTB, and logistically I think the best place that has the capacity for a start finish is Mont Bleu where they do the loppet races. There is a great track there which could be the start and finish area. I am pretty sure you could link that area with the trail system and build a nice course. The problem is that many of the paths in the park in that area are paved, and you couldn't run on them with spikes on.

    The other option is Camp Fortune which has hosted some trail/CX and MTB races. You could do the start finish at the bottom of the hill or at the lodge where the zip lines are. That would be much more 'trail race' than XC though. Lots of single track, rocks etc.

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Anything wrong with Mount Doug for a course location? And doesn't Thetis Lake already host a XC race?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Andrew Jones said 1 week ago

    "The problem is that many of the paths in the park in that area are paved, and you couldn't run on them with spikes on.

    The other option is Camp Fortune which has hosted some trail/CX and MTB races. You could do the start finish at the bottom of the hill or at the lodge where the zip lines are. That would be much more 'trail race' than XC though. Lots of single track, rocks etc."

    As for the appropriateness of the course, these are the kinds of problems commonly encountered (unnatural surfaces and too-narrow and out-of-sight sections). It's interesting to me that the two top "heath" courses (to me) that provide great sight lines are historical sites: the Plains in QC, and Ft. Henry. Does anyone know of any other historical sites (and this makes them more "Canadian" -- in a colonial sense, though) that are kinda/sorta like TPOA and FH?

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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "Kirk, I know the park pretty well from skiing/ MTB, and logistically I think the best place that has the capacity for a start finish is Mont Bleu where they do the loppet races. There is a great track there which could be the start and finish area. I am pretty sure you could link that area with the trail system and build a nice course. The problem is that many of the paths in the park in that area are paved, and you couldn't run on them with spikes on.

    The other option is Camp Fortune which has hosted some trail/CX and MTB races. You could do the start finish at the bottom of the hill or at the lodge where the zip lines are. That would be much more 'trail race' than XC though. Lots of single track, rocks etc."


    I was thinking of the same thing as the loppet. Trail 26 isn't paved the last time I was there (2016). But I have no say in where the course should be run, i'm just armchair debating.. But what I do want, is more difficulty on the course. If I wanted to run a fast time, I'd run on a track. Its cross country! We need more cross, in cross country; mud (which kingston had tonnes of), hills, some steeples (hay bails would work), and maybe even some water.

    I remember doing Ofsaa back when it was at the Hornets nest in Ottawa (2001?) east end ottawa.. There were some serious hills, trails, and mud. I just think Mooody bay is a poor spot.

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  • cummings User since:
    Apr 1st, 2006
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    Cummings said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Oldster
    "There is much more to consider when looking at venues capable of hosting XC events with 1000+ competitors than the course profile. The running course is definitely the heart of the matter, but things like the staging area, vehicular access to the site (including nearby parking), sight-lines for spectators, and quality of cell phone coverage are all factors too. And, in the case of the AC champs, average weather (and especially chance of major snowfall) in late November is a vital datum. In Ontario, I think it would be folly in the extreme to plan this event north of HWY 7 (Ottawa basically straddles it), especially with the increasing volatility of the weather at this time of year."


    You are right Steve but the reality is that those logistic things are often more important than the course itself; as is safety (I would add access to water, electricity, and a place to put porta-potties as well). You can have the best course in the world and no way to access it or get people to and from it safely, this is the reality of most of our greenspace in Calgary. We have amazing places to run, but most of the time nowhere to access it on a large scale. This is why most of our big XC events end up being at Canmore (Capitol Hill) Park, even though most runners have a love/hate relationship with this park in Calgary. It's reliable, easy to get a permit, the city pretty much never cancels permits based on weather, parking is decent, and everyone knows the course. It isn't really the best place for an XC race, but the logistics make the most sense for 80% of our big events.

    I will throw the Nordic Center out there in Canmore well for a course, but it has to be pre-ski season, Frozen Thunder is intact usually mid-October for the Biathlon crowd and early season skaters.

    It's really hard to find suitable venues, if I think of where City Champs for high school in Calgary has been hosted the past 10-15 years....we historically had it on private land south of Calgary at Hawk Ridge, when the landowner died we lost the venue. Then we moved City Champs to Calgary Olympic Park on Paskapoo Slopes, the course was way too tough but the location was good, HOWEVER the city and WinSport sold the land to a developer, so Paskapoo doesn't exist anymore. So there went that venue. We then found this perfect location down the street from me in Cochrane at the Ag Grounds, BUT we share the venue with the Equestrian Clubs around Cochrane, they are extremely finicky with the conditions of the grounds. It is a fantastic venue, but because our weather was so erratic this fall, we had a massive dump of snow at the start of October. The Ag Grounds canceled our permit last minute and I had to scramble to find an appropriate City Champs venue, my only option was Canmore Park with that timeline. Horses are big investments and their equestrian XC season was still going at that point; so the riders didn't want us chopping up their course, which was understandable.

    That's 4 venues in the past 10 years, and 2 of them are gone, with one becoming less reliable during equestrian season because of shifting climate. The venue discussion has been a big one in the cyclocross community in Alberta too because of shifting climate in the fall, residents of towns getting upset with their precious greenspaces, and dogparks getting chopped up by bikes to name a few issues.

    The Ag Grounds are great for a November race as the grass has a season to recover under the protection of a snow layer (and all other sports are done), but having to share with multiple users adds variables that affect the reliability of hosting events.

    Great courses, with all the logistical factors you need to host a great event, are extremely precious commodities. Race organization is a ton of work, and navigating chaos behind the scenes to make everything go smoothly race day for the athletes should never be undervalued by the running community. If you have a good relationship with a town/organization/or landowner to host events; be nice to that group or person! They provide a vital resource.

    This post was edited by Cummings 1 week ago . 
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  • cummings User since:
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    Cummings said 1 week ago

    Speaking of this, I know it's cold but Winnipeg has got to have some sort of decent course for a major event. It's a big place and a natural center of the country, I'm surprised there's never been a CIS or Nats there. People can't really be that scared of a prairie winter are they? Heck even Whitehorse has potential for an event, its relatively mild this time of year too, and actually not really that cold year round. Tons of trails and an awesome destination, way more attractive as a destination than Toronto in my opinion...only thing these east places have as a major advantage is proximity to population. Weather isn't always necessarily better in the east, -5 and dark and dreary and wet in Kingston sucks way more than -15 in Whitehorse or Calgary on a crisp, clear late fall or winter day. Plus 10 in Calgary today and dry, only minus 3 in Whitehorse, XC is traditionally a winter sport anyway is it not? Just saying...

    This post was edited by Cummings 1 week ago . 
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  • anonymous Anonymous
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Re: Winnipeg Back in the late '70s when Carey Penner (who still holds the Varsity Boys 3,000m record with an 8:28) was tearing up the roads and the track I believe some XC races were held at Birds Hill Provincial Park. Plant the bug in Claude Berube's ear.

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  • kelsall User since:
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    Kelsall said 1 week ago

    It's not that cold up until late November and after late March and sometimes longer, but of course, when it gets cold, it might as well be Inuvik or Dawson City.

    I think the key reason why any place doesn't get xc champs is the bid. Has a local club with enough volunteers from Winnipeg ever bid? If not, case closed, if so, well who won and why.

    I am guessing they have never bid.

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  • trailer User since:
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    Trailer said 1 week ago

    Don't forget the daylight factor. The farther north you go, the earlier in the afternoon that darkness begins to set in - especially on overcast days. Photography and other chores get more difficult without good lighting.

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  • desy99 User since:
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    Desy99 said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Meizner
    "Kirk, I know the park pretty well from skiing/ MTB, and logistically I think the best place that has the capacity for a start finish is Mont Bleu where they do the loppet races. There is a great track there which could be the start and finish area. I am pretty sure you could link that area with the trail system and build a nice course. The problem is that many of the paths in the park in that area are paved, and you couldn't run on them with spikes on.

    The other option is Camp Fortune which has hosted some trail/CX and MTB races. You could do the start finish at the bottom of the hill or at the lodge where the zip lines are. That would be much more 'trail race' than XC though. Lots of single track, rocks etc."



    I can't ever see Nationals at Gatineau Park. MEC runs a couple of trail races starting and ending from Camp Fortune. Because of the hills/mountains, a 9k races runs like a half marathon, a lot of single track paths. There would be no room for passing and a lot of the race would be in the bush. Thus, for seeing the race unfold, not possible. Weather in the park not ideal. For the past two years, close to Halloween, it's snowed.

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  • mounty User since:
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    Mounty said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Cummings
    "... Heck even Whitehorse has potential for an event, its relatively mild this time of year too, and actually not really that cold year round. Tons of trails and an awesome destination, way more attractive as a destination than Toronto in my opinion...only thing these east places have as a major advantage is proximity to population. Weather isn't always necessarily better in the east, -5 and dark and dreary and wet in Kingston sucks way more than -15 in Whitehorse or Calgary on a crisp, clear late fall or winter day. Plus 10 in Calgary today and dry, only minus 3 in Whitehorse, XC is traditionally a winter sport anyway is it not? Just saying..."


    I would love the excuse to take a trip up to NWT!

    This post was edited by Mounty 1 week ago . 
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Mounty
    "I would love the excuse to take a trip up to NWT!"


    http://www.guideoftheworld.com/wp-content/uploads/map/canada_provinces_territories_map.jpg

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  • cummings User since:
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    Cummings said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Trailer
    "Don't forget the daylight factor. The farther north you go, the earlier in the afternoon that darkness begins to set in - especially on overcast days. Photography and other chores get more difficult without good lighting."


    True, it's a good point. That's even a consideration for Edmonton or Calgary.

    This post was edited by Cummings 1 week ago . 
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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Mounty
    "I would love the excuse to take a trip up to NWT!"


    Um.....did you fail geography? Whitehorse is in the Yukon.

    Lets not forget the choice of locations needs to be economically viable and produce an optimal number of entries. At the end of the day AC needs to make $$$.

    Also how expensive will it be for athletes to get to the event and are there enough flights.

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  • oldster User since:
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    Oldster said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Cummings
    "True, it's a good point. That's even a consideration for Edmonton or Calgary."


    Yeah, we could tell you all about the daylight challenges.

    In general, if you're trying for a really top notch experience and look, the number of challenges that go into this event are far more than most people realize. The amount of invisible grunt work and fine-grained logistics involved-- and often under very harsh conditions-- would shock a lot of would-be hosts. Anyone even considering bidding should have a long chat with Clive Morgan.

    This post was edited by Oldster 1 week ago . 
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  • meizner User since:
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    Meizner said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "I was thinking of the same thing as the loppet. Trail 26 isn't paved the last time I was there (2016). But I have no say in where the course should be run, i'm just armchair debating.. But what I do want, is more difficulty on the course. If I wanted to run a fast time, I'd run on a track. Its cross country! We need more cross, in cross country; mud (which kingston had tonnes of), hills, some steeples (hay bails would work), and maybe even some water.

    I remember doing Ofsaa back when it was at the Hornets nest in Ottawa (2001?) east end ottawa.. There were some serious hills, trails, and mud. I just think Mooody bay is a poor spot."


    Mooney's bay is not great, but has good facility/ sightlines/ grass/ hills so you could do alot worse!

    You are correct, trail 26 remains unpaved. Trail 5 and 27 are paved. Trail 26 is essentially a dead end that stops at the parkway with the only feasible 'route' option being to go onto trail 5 (paved). So really, unless you are cutting new trail or doing alot of looping on the grassy areas around the high school you have few options for a course that takes advantage of the excellent natural terrain.

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  • mounty User since:
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    Mounty said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Anonymous
    "Um.....did you fail geography? Whitehorse is in the Yukon.


    Ya I dropped the ball on that one, but my statement still stands! I want to visit any/all the territories at some point. Grade 9 geography was my worst mark in high school

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    Handhills Harrier said 1 week ago

    Interesting discussion. There are a lot of great places to run races in Canada. Just have to realize we are a winter country and in November you can expect any kind of weather. You want to run in a decent place the West Coast is your safest bet.. Cochrane/ Calgary/ Canmore beautiful place to host a race but so variable with the weather. In Alberta there is a saying wait 5 minutes and the weather will change. Winnipeg in November that's dicey as is Edmonton -Hawrelak Park.
    Sherbrooke QC great place for a race or Montreal. Halifax another great site. Ran in most of these places. it's cross country take it as it comes and do your best. Canada eh!!

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    Anonymous said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Oldster
    "In general, if you're trying for a really top notch experience and look, the number of challenges that go into this event are far more than most people realize. The amount of invisible grunt work and fine-grained logistics involved-- and often under very harsh conditions-- would shock a lot of would-be hosts. Anyone even considering bidding should have a long chat with Clive Morgan."


    This is a good point, I would like to say that Clive Morgan does an amazing job! Saw him out on the course each night, in the dark, in the cold, the week leading up to nationals. His system of laying out the barriers around the entire course is smooth and efficient. So thanks Clive (and physi-Kult) for putting on a top notch race the last four years. You did a very good job.

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  • oldster User since:
    Sep 25th, 2013
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    Oldster said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Handhills Harrier
    "Interesting discussion. There are a lot of great places to run races in Canada. Just have to realize we are a winter country and in November you can expect any kind of weather. You want to run in a decent place the West Coast is your safest bet.. Cochrane/ Calgary/ Canmore beautiful place to host a race but so variable with the weather. In Alberta there is a saying wait 5 minutes and the weather will change. Winnipeg in November that's dicey as is Edmonton -Hawrelak Park.
    Sherbrooke QC great place for a race or Montreal. Halifax another great site. Ran in most of these places. it's cross country take it as it comes and do your best. Canada eh!!"


    Theoretically, the west coast is the safest bet for later November XC. Theoretically.

    There was worse weather (including more snow) in Vancouver's 4 most recent runs than there was for our 4. Just saying.

    In the dawning era of climate chaos, all weather bets are off.

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  • nc-blogger User since:
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    NC Blogger said 1 week ago

    I also don't understand how you can choose someone for a team that is injured. Who is to say they will be healthy come March? Will they have to prove fitness before they can actually go? That hearkens back to the disaster years of the late 90's early 2000's.

    Is there a provision in place that, if the athletes are not healthy, they can be replaced?

    I'm not going to call into question who has been named to the team, as last time I did that (20 odd years ago) it did not go over well, but it seems AC has not learned much from past mistakes....

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  • mattnorminton User since:
    Jan 13th, 2013
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    mattnorminton said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Oldster
    "Theoretically, the west coast is the safest bet for later November XC. Theoretically.

    There was worse weather (including more snow) in Vancouver's 4 most recent runs than there was for our 4. Just saying.

    In the dawning era of climate chaos, all weather bets are off."


    And Edmonton had nicer weather than Kingston did this year and regularly did during the Guelph hosting years...Of course we have had some ugly 3rd weekend in Novembers as well!

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  • cummings User since:
    Apr 1st, 2006
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    Cummings said 1 week ago

    Quoting: mattnorminton
    "And Edmonton had nicer weather than Kingston did this year and regularly did during the Guelph hosting years...Of course we have had some ugly 3rd weekend in Novembers as well!"


    True, if the LC Kodiaks were ever eager to put a bid in for Nats, you'd be sure to probably have good weather in Lethbridge, more reliable than many other host cities. It's the 3rd warmest city in Canada because of the strong chinook winds the city gets throughout the winter. Lethbridge's pathways and trails are actually clear most of the year; and there are lots of great parks to host a race. Southern Alberta is a place not many people in the country get to either, it's beautiful, only 2h south of Calgary. The biggest issue is dealing with high winds.

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  • new-post-last-visitsammyd User since:
    Oct 30th, 2013
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    SammyD said 1 week ago

    Quoting: Cummings
    "True, if the LC Kodiaks were ever eager to put a bid in for Nats, you'd be sure to probably have good weather in Lethbridge, more reliable than many other host cities. It's the 3rd warmest city in Canada because of the strong chinook winds the city gets throughout the winter. Lethbridge's pathways and trails are actually clear most of the year; and there are lots of great parks to host a race. Southern Alberta is a place not many people in the country get to either, it's beautiful, only 2h south of Calgary. The biggest issue is dealing with high winds."


    Fair point; in the 15 years I lived in Lethbridge I think we had a white Christmas 3 or 4 times.... but racing in the wind can get wild. Lack of snow isn't the biggest deal I think though, I ran in snow in Guelph and Vancouver at various times for ACXC and it adds another element to the race.

    Regardless, it would be great to have ACXC in some new locations from time to time, and this thread has great discussion on options and what goes into actually hosting it. That isn't a negative statement on previous hosts either, Fort Henry is my favourite XC course and always is well run, I just think variety would be fun.

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